No more (//) signs in the territory??

[Outbackjack]

Well it is official, the Clare Martin NT governmenet will be voting this week to impose a blanket 110K limit over the NT. It would appear that Federal Government pressure and the fact she now heads up what is basically a dictatorship have made it too easy for her. In the past any Terrirory gov would pay a hefty price at the ballot box for just mentioning that they were "thinking" of introducing low speed limits. Now that we basically have no opposition in the NT she is weilding a very big stick.

This will make abolutely no difference to the road toll. It is just another government revenue grab. Our worsr accicents always happen on dirt roads where there is little or no police presence anyway.

I guess that the cannonballers will be changing their plans now.

[EA2BA]

Its going to kill alot of trucking bussiness I think.

[GlennBA]

Originally Posted by EA2BA

Its going to kill alot of trucking bussiness I think.

Why? most trucks are speed limited anyhow.

[EA2BA]

Originally Posted by GlennAUII

Why? most trucks are speed limited anyhow.

You mean most trucks have speed limit signs on them ......... :

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by EA2BA

You mean most trucks have speed limit signs on them ......... :

Yeh and most roadtrains can't do over 95 - 100 anyways!

Speed limiters are getting harder and harder to tamper with with the newer trucks, not like the older Volvos etc where you could just un plug them under the glovebox.

I dont see how its going to affect transport, you dont see too many trucks sitting on anything over 115 which they will still be able to do neways as the roads will be unpoliced for a large part of the trip.

[RG]

I wonder how long before they change it back because it's causing too many fatalities?

[orsomxc]

Originally Posted by GlennAUII

Why? most trucks are speed limited anyhow.

I have a customer who bought a truck cheap from NSW because it was busted 3 times doing over 160kph.

The same truck is now running free in QLD.

[Dazza XLT]

Originally Posted by orsomxc

I have a customer who bought a truck cheap from NSW because it was busted 3 times doing over 160kph.

The same truck is now running free in QLD.

There is a whole fleet of Kenworths that haul to Darwin. And I know for a fact that they travel with 3 trailers at over 140 on some roads.
One was caught between Charleville and Cunnamulla last year... 143kph with 2 loaded trailers of steel.
All their trucks, trailers and dollies are maintained to an excellent standard, and instead of having the usual 3rd Trailer Sway, these road trains run straight as a dye.
But it's way too fast for 100t of Road Train to be travelling at full stop, straight or not.
I know that Queensland Transport now has the ability to log into the trucks computer and download all the relevant information to check travelling speeds, and they have caught a few out around this area already.

Cheers

[Professor Farnsworth]

I'm surprised it's taken this long for the suggestion to become more than just a suggestion. I don't support it, as with many others i was looking forward to a 'leisurely cruise' up to and through the NT. I support it in a radius of say, around 10km from minor and major towns, and incidental black spots/winding areas, but on flat open desert roads, i think unlimited (or maybe 160ish limited) roads are fine.

I've never been up there, so i couldn't say how many NT residents actually take the unlimted signs literally (flat out) and how many people just sit on 120 or so.. so it depends on the percentages of those two populi as to whether the law will be a favoured move by the government in the eyes of the people, or not.

When i was in high school, we had an annual trip to the alice for the Year 11's. My older sister's year level went up there, she didn't go though, we weren't financial for it at the time. This proved to be a god send, as the bus crashed up there, killing the student up the front, paralysed some, and left others as amputee's. This however happened on one of the dirt roads, which i believe was also unlimited. Apparently the bus hit a pot hole on a corner, and rolled at high speed. Some of you may have seen it on the news back in the day, i believe it was around 1993-4 ? That was a shocking time.

Having said that, i still believe in the unrestricted (or partially restricted, 160ish) limits in the Territory as a whole, but only on sealed roads, and out of the limits of towns.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by GlennAUII

Why? most trucks are speed limited anyhow.

You know there are no upside down transport ones out there.

I have followed many trucks on the Stuart & Barkley at 130km/h.......

[GasoLane]

This is long 'cause I've been savin' them up

Originally Posted by EA2BA

Its going to kill alot of trucking bussiness I think.

The Adel/Darwin railway did that.

Originally Posted by EA2BA

You mean most trucks have speed limit signs on them

Nope, most trucks ARE speed limited. Anyway the only ones that would run fast up there are the ones that really like changing tyres.

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

My point was that if the speed restrictions are imposed it will not change the development of our future models (ie Ford wont go changing the final drive ratios in the Falcon because of it), they arent developed with 160km/h NT cruising as a priority.

I think you'll find that OH&S laws prevent testers from going faster than 130kmh

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

This is long 'cause I've been savin' them up


The Adel/Darwin railway did that.

Nope, most trucks ARE speed limited. Anyway the only ones that would run fast up there are the ones that really like changing tyres.

I think you'll find that OH&S laws prevent testers from going faster than 130kmh

The Adel/Darwin railway hasnt slowed the road transport situation like every one thought. The trucks up here dont seem to have speed limiters. I have cruised behind many a truck doing 130. I dont think that the testers have read the OH&S rules...

[Dazza XLT]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

This is long 'cause I've been savin' them up
The Adel/Darwin railway did that.

Only for a short time. While I was in Katherine, Northine Freight was getting everything sent on the train. The rail jacked the rates up on them, so they cut a deal with Gulf RTA group. They went out, purchased 15 Trucks, 30 Dollies, and 90 Trailers. On the road again....
We used the rail for a short while, then went back to road transport too.
Way too bloody dear.

Cheers

[MO]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

This is long 'cause I've been savin' them up


The Adel/Darwin railway did that.

Nope, most trucks ARE speed limited. Anyway the only ones that would run fast up there are the ones that really like changing tyres.

I think you'll find that OH&S laws prevent testers from going faster than 130kmh

Well this I can dispute and this applies across the board.

1. Porsche back in 2002/3? requested St John ambulance for everyone of the runs and then complained that because St John could'nt keep up they should get faster ambulances.
The paramedics were driving ford/holden wagons.

2. A mate of mine used to do tyre testing for various manufacturers..now given that some tyres being tested were rated at the top of the range..I don't think oh&s has anything to do with it nor does 130kph.

[james22]

And i was looking forward to giving my old girl a bit of a run out there.... damn :

They want to change the speed limit in orange here from 50kph to 45. Already takes too long to get across town.

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by james22

They want to change the speed limit in orange here from 50kph to 45. Already takes too long to get across town.

I would be a supporter of a blanket 45km/h speed limit in built up areas (excluding arterial roads obviously)

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

I would be a supporter of a blanket 45km/h speed limit in built up areas (excluding arterial roads obviously)

Good on you mate.
Is it any wonder governments can get away with enacting rediculous law's.
there is always some stooges handy for a sound bite that helps them,or that believe there tripe,and scewed statistics...

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Good on you mate.
Is it any wonder governments can get away with enacting rediculous law's.
there is always some stooges handy for a sound bite that helps them,or that believe there tripe,and scewed statistics...

There is no doubt in my mind that the Govt skews stats to help their argument - but are you honestly convinced none of that happens here??

Like i said, i agree with lower speed limits in built up areas where travel distances and times are not large. After doing some work on the whole speed thing with tests and the like on how it affects car performance and road suer safety (which mind you, i went into with the same thoughts as you on the matter), it becomes very clear very quickly how reducing your speed from 60 to 50, or 55 to 45 makes a HUGE difference.

Mind you I also bat for increased speed limits on motorways, where conditions are controlled and you wont get toddlers running out chasing balls. However while our vehicle fleet is so old, we have drivers who are convinced it is OK to stop on the side of the motorway and get out by stepping INTO the lane, i can appreciate why govt's are keen to keep a handle on speed.

Unless the government can be shown that extra speed wont mean extra deaths there is no way they will be willing to risk paying the premiuim for every extra dead person the increased limits make (isnt it about $500,000 per death??) Its not all about revenue raising, they genuinely want to keep you alive to vote them in next election cause if you die, they will lose!!

[Keepleft]

Longish response, sorry -

I have never been totally 'comfortable' with NT's blanket,-'geographically open' and legislated, speed derestriction application.

It works this way; NT has a seperate traffic regulation to the ARR-Rule 25(3)(b) which basically 'opts-out' of the national rural default, as applied to light vehicles. In effect for these; no absolute speed limit applies outside ALL town areas in NT, regardless of road quality and regardless of (//) signs being posted or not, except if a speed restriction sign is used on the length.

It is simply ludicrous to allow no absolute limit on the vast majorty of NT dirt roads, and some lengths of poorer quality asphalt.

I am very Germanic in my speed management advocacy. I'll remind that one of the key NT proponents on the NT Road Safety Council is NT's Police Commissioner, lord only knows his background, mind you, - some of his crash investigation colleagues are not so enthausiastic. Other proponents of this are Harold Scruby and the Commonwealth.

Now, this all said - there is NO valid reason why NT's remote key asphalt, wider lengths of highway, such as major length portions of the Stuart should have a speed limit.

Further, in my own correspondence to the Minister some weeks ago, I mentioned to NOT fine drivers for exceeding a default rural speed limit when the driver had passed a speed derestriction sign. The Commonwealth is contracturally bound to not mis-represent the UN meaning of the sign.

(//) = END OF ALL LOCAL PROHIBITIONS IMPOSED ON MOVING VEHICLES.
Some respondents mention vehicle testing; It is true this happens, but not just with Australian domestic makes, foreign vehicles are indeed taken to NT for testing for NVH, sealing and so on. Australia exports vehicles increasingly to the HOT middle east, where an increasing number of progressive governments are signposting 160km/h speed limits.

My only suggestion to such governments is to derestrict instead, this will reduce the 'bunching-up effect' you get, even at 160km/h maximums.

We could debate this much. I have seen back in late 1978 - NSW drop its speed derestriction allowance, - open allowance in July 1978 and by July 1979 was a maximum 100km/h. This period therafter saw a big increase in police radar use and ever increasing fines for transgression, WHAT WAS LEGAL AND QUITE SAFE ONE DAY AND YEAR - WAS ILLEGAL AND 'PUNISHED' THE NEXT. Each year your states Attorney General 'predicts' fine income.

Speed restriction 100km/h application had proven to cause ever frustrated people to drive like a-holes and not take the care or polite manner that they once did in their driving when under derestriction.

The road toll dropped here, (well not quite on some ex (//) roads) but did so in every other western developed country too on the same timeframe. Shortly after the dropping of NSW's (//) - we had fuel strikes often for weeks on end into the early 80's, less discretionary travel = less exposure = less crash outcome.

Modern speed managers will be relying on 'The Hall Matrix' and other academic tools to further the cause of a speed limit, try and not laugh - *some* of this is reasonable.

UNLESS each and every NT fatal is examined to ISO standards and practice, then I accept none of the 'expert research', each incident should be fully investigated right down to tyre compound, as such we do in Germany. I could write thousands of pages advocating this.

We see greater and greater restrictions, the result creates precious little desire in helping one to motivate oneself to improve his or her driver abilities and behaviour. I see public service employees ever determined to ride 'road safety agenda' over a tired but increasingly angry public; as one WA ALP MP said a few years ago to me, 'its the Perth based road safety nazis that are the concern, they live here in Perth, but control regions thousands of kilometres away'. Similar feelings from the LIB opp member too.

Give me free reign people, and I'd sack many an employee, the last few years has seen these people NOT interact with the public. In politics, we call it 'arrogance'. I'd thouroughly overhaul my own jurisdictions road agency, indeed would break it up, serving highway patrol police would have no option but to either work with 'speed' as a given', just like in Germany, Dubai, Iran, India, Italy, Hungary, Italy and Austria OR find other employment. I would (and will) adopt as law my Euro standards as to vehicle equipment and driver requirement, and we'd have some balanced 'allowances'. One day.

Hell, one of NT's employees is just 'dumb', some time ago I wrote text for NT's previous "Road Users' Handbook", read to prohibit the use of rear fog lights except under hazardous weather conditions, that wasn't included after an update. Why? "I've never seen or heard of rear fog lights, and if they exist - we don't get fog in Darwin' anyway!! THESE are our "experts"????

She failed to comprehend monsoonal rain, dirt roads and dust, bushfire smoke etc and so on, I thought had she forgotten the crash where a Nissan Patrol ran into the rear of coach on a dirt road, causing a 14 yo girl to fall out the back of it (through the window) onto the dirt road only to be killed?? (Mandate rear fogs and it would not have occured, or its severity of impact much reduced).

I accused it of deliberately dumbing-down the NT populace, of 'keeping your readership in the dark', particularly when such folk would visit interstate where we actually actively fine for the offence of using rear fogs in clear weather. It really ****es me there are stupid, incompetent people who cannot fathom very simple things, yet have such yeilding power over the populace by virtue of long-term held employment, that if so used wisely, could improve road user knowledge substantially.

One thing these people know; they have career jobs, and they know MP's and Ministers come and go, - and they DO play on that, - usually to further over time their own agency agenda. Only takes one bad egg to stuff things up for all fellow employees and a generally decent public.

I will say this; speed derestriction signage might well be seen one day, to full effect, on some western remote NSW roads, turn off such onto another road - and it'll be the default 100km/h, unless again signposted (//). It is agency desired, is appropriate, and will arrive one day, but managed properly.

05MkIIFutura wrote: Mind you I also bat for increased speed limits on motorways, where conditions are controlled and you wont get toddlers running out chasing balls. However while our vehicle fleet is so old, we have drivers who are convinced it is OK to stop on the side of the motorway and get out by stepping INTO the lane, i can appreciate why govt's are keen to keep a handle on speed.

Sympathetic - but we will not raise inter-urban motorway restrictions until all medians have barriers and the emergency U-Turn bays are 'gated' to stop people using them as intersections.

IF we are serious about road safety and allowing greater speed allowance - we *will* make it l.a.w, just like in Germany, France, Italy, Hungary - as at 2005, - that if you leave your vehicle to attend a crash or breakdown, you *must* now throw on a safety vest, no ifs, no buts, the fine in Germany approaches I am told $400 in our money. We will also mandate the UNECE triangle, one per MA, MB and MC, anything less is negligent as a failing in mduty of care by government in giving us all the freely available tools specified as standard equipment OS.

We get stuff all and it is very, very 'wrong'.

NB - A road death is put at over 1.8million dollars, this figure will havencreased. (BTRE).

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

I would be a supporter of a blanket 45km/h speed limit in built up areas (excluding arterial roads obviously)

I would support this if it saved lives.

Originally Posted by davway

thats funny....OF COURSE!
theres a lot of $$$$$ to be made off of speeding fines.

I know, I live in Vic too!! :P But on roads in the middle of the outback??

Jack, what do you think, will local cops worriy about this or more important things?

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

I would support this if it saved lives.


I know, I live in Vic too!! :P But on roads in the middle of the outback??

Jack, what do you think, will local cops worriy about this or more important things?

I think that the cops will try and do important things. But their political master will force them onto the highway with a quota to fill. Now I know why the NT labor government is recruting 90 odd new police. Man, these polititions are sleazy sneaky SOB's.

[FDG 220]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Well it is official, the Clare Martin NT governmenet will be voting this week to impose a blanket 110K limit over the NT. It would appear that Federal Government pressure and the fact she now heads up what is basically a dictatorship have made it too easy for her. In the past any Terrirory gov would pay a hefty price at the ballot box for just mentioning that they were "thinking" of introducing low speed limits. Now that we basically have no opposition in the NT she is weilding a very big stick.

This will make abolutely no difference to the road toll. It is just another government revenue grab. Our worsr accicents always happen on dirt roads where there is little or no police presence anyway.

I guess that the cannonballers will be changing their plans now.

:1syellow1 :1syellow1 :1syellow1 :1syellow1 You live in NT!!!!
Can i use your address for a licence???

[Walkinshaw]

Its sad the road rules are designed to keep the braindead alive.

[Outbackjack]

Another thing that I forgor to mention is they are bringing in demerit point and power restrictions for 16 to 18 year old drivers.

These laws will kill more people than they ever save. I can see all kinds of folk falling asleep because they will be spending so much more time on the road to get anywhere. We have distances approaching 500klms between roadhouses, and trust me, there is nothing to look at in between. Not even any corners. It never ceases to amaze me how dumb people become once they get into government, or is it ego??

[csv8]

Queenslanders are stuck with 100km/hr on the open road !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trend here is to lower speed limits and raise revenue. RACQ supports the govt not motorists, that they are supposed to represent.
W.A report said "the majority of motorists caught by speed cameras are not the ones causing the road carnage" We need car pollies !!! NOW !!!

[Keepleft]

I did warn most AUS motoring forums about this.

Had anyone taken the advice to write to their local MP?

IF you want to keep derestriction on the lengths of road where (//) is signposted - CALL YOUR LOCAL MEMBER *NOW*.

CSV - The so called motoring clubs are lets face it insurance companies, they are not pro-driver advocates as was once the case, the greater restriction proposed by government, the greater their support, 'generally'.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

CSV - The so called motoring clubs are lets face it insurance companies, they are not pro-driver advocates as was once the case, the greater restriction proposed by government, the greater their support, 'generally'.

So, so, so, SO true. Big $$$ insurance companies who, well... dont even pretend to front up as motoring advocates any more.

Yes... every new law imposed upon Australian motors is another avenue for an insurer to deny a claim.

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

So, so, so, SO true. Big $$$ insurance companies who, well... dont even pretend to front up as motoring advocates any more.

Yes... every new law imposed upon Australian motors is another avenue for an insurer to deny a claim.

You'll find the majority of insurance companies are not motoring advocates anyway. The actual motoring clubs themselves have little to do with the insurance arm of the business.

RACQ insurance is 51% owned and run by Suncorp
NRMA Insurance is owned 100% by IAG (same owners as CGU)
RAC (Western Australia) is owned by Promina (same people that own AAMI)

[Keepleft]

An update to this.

NT MP's are receiving strong opposition to an absolute speed limit. NT GovCo will release soon a report to the public for consumption, that outlines ALL proposals, example, demerit points implementation etc and so on.

I expect them to place this on the website soon and will advise when this is the case.

People *must* continue writing.

[The Monty]

Speed restrictions lower, I am going to watch for the rise in road toll. Then they cant say anything about the lower speed limits being a positive step. :