Vfacts November 2018

[Vesper Martini]

To me Ford are attempting to re-position themselves in the market here.

Product & pricing seems to sit mid range where there's least competition.
yes a 75K vehicle is mid-range.
cross shop with low end Euros cheapest X5 with a 2.0 diesel is still 100K
base model Audi Q5 ----- 75K

[FTE217]

Forgetting the Euros, earn't asking premium long ago and bung on the show at dealer and service levels, always higher dollars and people blindly buy them even if a specific model is a POS, branding.
Where they are playing is the Jap/Korean segments......
Thats the ball game they are in and pushing they are Premium, majority of consumers will not buy the Ford because you have to earn the Premium tag imo those other brands have with persistence/marketing/branding/service/range.
Ford is not perceived as a Premium brand by consumers imo.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Forgetting the Euros, earn't asking premium long ago and bung on the show at dealer and service levels, always higher dollars and people blindly buy them even if a specific model is a POS, branding.
Where they are playing is the Jap/Korean segments......
Thats the ball game they are in and pushing they are Premium, majority of consumers will not buy the Ford because you have to earn the Premium tag imo those other brands have with persistence/marketing/branding/service/range.
Ford is not perceived as a Premium brand by consumers imo.

Spot on. Theres no correlation between Ford and premium. People still think about their grand fathers XD falcon and how uncool it was to them, or for some their first car an EF Falcon that used to blow head gaskets at the sign of a hot day.

[Vesper Martini]

Agreed Ford are not perceived as a premium brand here, but this is a better vehicle (on paper) than the Jap/Korean segment offerings.

But most Buyers wont see that, if Ford just stick them on the Lot they wont sell, there's lots of work to be done by marketing - lots

[au2000]

I could not agree more with the previous comments, Ford is not identified as a premium product to anyone, and for any hope for that image to change ford would have to step up it's public relations / customer service dramatically.

I get ford is aiming for higher profit models but I still think in the long term it's a risky proposition.

Those base models get budget buyers in, get them in, treat them right and build their loyalty to be return buyers ,

[prydey]

To be fair to Ford, the only place I've ever heard the notion that Ford is trying to position itself as a premium product, is on this forum.

Same goes for the notion that if you aren't topping the sales charts of the little island in the middle of the Pacific, then you are a failure as a manufacturer.

Ford will sell cars in Australia for decades to come. They may not continue to perform how they used to, or even sell products that traditional old Ford fans like, but they will still be here, selling vehicles.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

Same goes for the notion that if you aren't topping the sales charts of the little island in the middle of the Pacific, then you are a failure as a manufacturer.

Ford will sell cars in Australia for decades to come. They may not continue to perform how they used to, or even sell products that traditional old Ford fans like, but they will still be here, selling vehicles.

Lol, then they'd have to admit the same principal for the other mob Rob and there's no way thats going to happen.

Nope, astute manufacturers are only chasing high end, high profit sales, dont need to move more than 5.5k/month and if it looks like its struggling (insert reason for lower than expected sales) and direct focus to the opposition.

Rinse, repeat.

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Agreed Ford are not perceived as a premium brand here, but this is a better vehicle (on paper) than the Jap/Korean segment offerings.

Whilst I wish Ford every success with the Endura, that's a pretty big call for a vehicle we haven't seen yet.

What do you think makes it a better vehicle than those others Bevsta?

I see for a starter it has a maximum of five seats. Surely if you're in the business of selling SUVs you'd reckon your typical buyer probably appreciates the flexibility of seven.

Don't get me wrong, I'd certainly be keen to have a look at one if I was in the market for a new car though.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by prydey

To be fair to Ford, the only place I've ever heard the notion that Ford is trying to position itself as a premium product, is on this forum.

Same goes for the notion that if you aren't topping the sales charts of the little island in the middle of the Pacific, then you are a failure as a manufacturer.

Ford will sell cars in Australia for decades to come. They may not continue to perform how they used to, or even sell products that traditional old Ford fans like, but they will still be here, selling vehicles.

Rob you got blinkers on, BS its not the forum starting this.
IF I recall right sometime ago before Everest release or a press release remodeling themselves, they had quoted wanting to place their products on the Premium side of car sales and Everest was one that is for sure, a newby up against some sound long time competitors and go in matched or higher pricing.
Stupid is stupid, you didn't see Hyunda/Kia start that way, look how Mazda came back last 10odd years, they didn't pitch high straight up.
Ford wanted to break way from the taxi Falcon syndrome yaddayaddayadda.
Yes sure they will be here for a long and I expect so but to price point new lines into a very strong field of competitors you got to back it up but prior to that you got to earn trust of the consumer.
Where have we seen this ?.
Excuse me on the little island they ended up to the point of closing shop !
Traditional old Ford fans could buy so much more from them, for their wife's/kids etc so tell us excl Ranger Mustang what other lines can the live off ? feck all mate for the numbers are not great, not as bad as holden but not much better taking their no1-2 sellers away.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Ford price themselves in the premium market space... 42k for a Focus Titanium is Lexus money... ������

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Excuse me on the little island they ended up to the point of closing shop !
Traditional old Ford fans could buy so much more from them, for their wife's/kids etc so tell us excl Ranger Mustang what other lines can the live off ? feck all mate for the numbers are not great, not as bad as holden but not much better taking their no1-2 sellers away.

Ranger is selling
Mustang is selling
so
do a 4 door Mustang (more sales)
do a Mustang wagon (more sales)
do a Mustang ute (lots more sales)
do a Mustang panel van (more sales)
and do a Mustang based SUV

[danzvtil]

This has been discussed to death, the growing brands in Australia, Toyota,Mazda,Hyundai,Kia have spent the last 10 years upgrading their dealer networks, and lifting the car buying experience out of the dark ages. For instance, why should a female car buyer of any age have to take her dad or male friend with her when she visits car dealers? Most ford and Holden dealers I’ve visited are still the old boys club.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

Whilst I wish Ford every success with the Endura, that's a pretty big call for a vehicle we haven't seen yet.

What do you think makes it a better vehicle than those others Bevsta?

I see for a starter it has a maximum of five seats. Surely if you're in the business of selling SUVs you'd reckon your typical buyer probably appreciates the flexibility of seven.

Don't get me wrong, I'd certainly be keen to have a look at one if I was in the market for a new car though.

Have a read of the link I put in post 110 it show what it will have over the Kluger. and note number of seats does not define the quality of the vehicle, theres already a number of 7 seaters available, where the 3rd row is very limited. I own one..

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by prydey

To be fair to Ford, the only place I've ever heard the notion that Ford is trying to position itself as a premium product, is on this forum.

Same goes for the notion that if you aren't topping the sales charts of the little island in the middle of the Pacific, then you are a failure as a manufacturer.

Ford will sell cars in Australia for decades to come. They may not continue to perform how they used to, or even sell products that traditional old Ford fans like, but they will still be here, selling vehicles.

Just looking at the upcoming models Rob,( ps I said mid range not premium)
look at Fiesta for instance only offering the ST. and theres no push on the Povo pack ranger 2wd

Put it this way - What have they got coming up in "affordable models"?

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Ford price themselves in the premium market space... 42k for a Focus Titanium is Lexus money... ������

Pretty much. buts lets remember the Lexus CT is a corolla with gold badges

A-class starts at just over 50K (and I see lots on the road)

Id pick the Focus Titanium over these

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Pretty much. buts lets remember the Lexus CT is a corolla with gold badges

A-class starts at just over 50K (and I see lots on the road)

Id pick the Focus Titanium over these

No I wouldn't using my head.
My ol man has a IS250 and the service you receive is beyound expectations.
Your ownership experience IF your a dealer devotee is next to none but were talking another level but imo this should be the benchmark.

danzvtil - yes been done to death and were yet to see Ford dealers win customer higher % positive reviews more than negative unless I've missed something.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Pretty much. buts lets remember the Lexus CT is a corolla with gold badges

A-class starts at just over 50K (and I see lots on the road)

Id pick the Focus Titanium over these

Your missing the point...



At 42k I wouldn't. It should be 35k.

[Vesper Martini]

No - what Im saying is that for the same price I'd pick a focus titanium over the base model Lexus CT
PS Focus Titanium is listed at 37.5K driveaway and can be sourced cheaper (if theres stock)
so in reality it is 35K

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by FTE217

No I wouldn't using my head.
My ol man has a IS250 and the service you receive is beyound expectations.
Your ownership experience IF your a dealer devotee is next to none but were talking another level but imo this should be the benchmark.

danzvtil - yes been done to death and were yet to see Ford dealers win customer higher % positive reviews more than negative unless I've missed something.

Good point - I forgot about the pains associated with Ford Dealers.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Just looking at the upcoming models Rob,( ps I said mid range not premium)
look at Fiesta for instance only offering the ST. and theres no push on the Povo pack ranger 2wd

Put it this way - What have they got coming up in "affordable models"?

this is a different thing to remarketing themselves as a premium brand. Sure, they have taken themselves out of some markets, but that was because there is no money there. ask mitsi and Nissan etc. unless you are prepared to push high volume, low profit sales, there is little benefit and its high risk. apart from corolla, i30 and mazda 3, the rest of the Hyundai and mazda passenger car range barely make a blip on the radar, similar to Ford. Nissan and Mitsi could see it and now ford have also decided to focus on suv type vehicles.

stopping selling base model vehicles because there is no money in it, doesn't equate to 'trying to become a premium brand'.

as for the prices they charge, any manufacturer will set the price at whatever price point they need to cover the costs involved and be profitable. I'm sure Ford could lower it prices if it wanted, but perhaps they are selling enough to be sustainable.

I don't know. i'm not privy to their internal costings, but I do think that a company that has been around for as long as ford, do actually know what they are doing. They sell more cars here than about 50 other brands (at least).

maybe i'm naïve. I don't really care. I don't have a vested interest in them. I'm just a 'fan', and I don't get all negative Nancy if they aren't operating to my expectations.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Not really. Its already out of date, especially the engine. Whats so great about it? The features are pretty standard. I fail to see the fuss.

So the brand new ecoblue diesel is out of date?

Originally Posted by FTE217

Tell that to Coke/RedBull/Maccas/Tag/Dior/Gucci and all those "name" brands that keep marketing.......Ford is a name brand right but its not thought of much by Mr Mrs Consumer imo.
Its not about just marketing special offers its about branding and getting it in peoples heads.
Here's my marketing research just amongst our circle of friends/relos, not 1 buys a Ford product but me.
25yrs married none of my bro/sis inlaws (have quite a few) have bought a Ford product.
It doesn't come into their mind/internet searchs/jump in the car to dealer they won't be looking at a Ford.

So tell me, currently Ranger sells to Tradies/Fed and local Govcos/Small Business and the likes, love to know its % of Private Sales but I'm guessing not high.
Next their No2 seller is a performance car Mustang.
In the age of people mover/SUV small and big dominance sales Ford if you were to rank them 1-10 where are they ?
The rest of the range, phhhht making up numbers - not really competing at the high end of rankings but thats OK because the small sales they do achieve is profitable. Great while it can last.
Well why wouldn't you wish to be even more profitable and raise your market share for IF you keep sitting back thinking less numbers good margins is good enough before you know it the opposition keeps expanding its range/s and will eat into your low profitable sales even more

So ok don't do any more marketing leave as is.
Good luck to Endura it needs it.

You would be surprised how high a % of Ford sales are to private buyers. Ford doesn't really do many fleet sales anymore, except for Ranger. It's a low money game and Ford got out of much of it after the factories closed.

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Ford price themselves in the premium market space... 42k for a Focus Titanium is Lexus money... ������

The Lexus CT is a crap car though. No one wants on of those.

[Smoke Pursuit]

We don't get Ecoblue here... Our Endura has the same Duratorq motor as my Diesel Mondeo with a few more kw. 140kw / 400 nm.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

We don't get Ecoblue here... Our Endura has the same Duratorq motor as my Diesel Mondeo with a few more kw. 140kw / 400 nm.

That Endura is not a MY2019 though is it SP ?

[Vesper Martini]

Europe get the ecoblue
https://www.caradvice.com.au/623633/...-edge-ecoblue/
but I think SP is correct we are still getting the existing donk - all too slowly

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Well they should care, they are losing market share and its affecting dealers greatly. I cant wait to see their December number as there's been a supply issue with Ranger which may see them below Holden again...



They are quickly becoming the Rangerstang motor company.

Exactly, Ford Australia will make money on every vehicle it sells...dealers not so and if Ford dealers don't have enough volume of product then they won't stay Ford dealers or if lucky maybe multi-franchise if allowed.

Try getting a business loan if you tell your lender over 50% of your income is tied to 2 large customers....

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Europe get the ecoblue
https://www.caradvice.com.au/623633/...-edge-ecoblue/
but I think SP is correct we are still getting the existing donk - all too slowly

Yep Europe can get a 175kW (iirc) version..

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Exactly, Ford Australia will make money on every vehicle it sells...dealers not so and if Ford dealers don't have enough volume of product then they won't stay Ford dealers or if lucky maybe multi-franchise if allowed.

Try getting a business loan if you tell your lender over 50% of your income is tied to 2 large customers....

There is already a lot of Ford dealers “multi franchising”.My local dealer already sells,MG,Kia,Isuzu ute,Mitsubishi,Maserati,Mercedes & a few others.He also bought out a existing Holden franchise(to sell only Holden’s though)There is no way you could survive on selling Ford on it’s own.Cheers

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by hackney

There is already a lot of Ford dealers “multi franchising”.My local dealer already sells,MG,Kia,Isuzu ute,Mitsubishi,Maserati,Mercedes & a few others.He also bought out a existing Holden franchise(to sell only Holden’s though)There is no way you could survive on selling Ford on it’s own.Cheers

Theres no way you could survive selling 1 of anything, unless maybe your Toyota. Nearly every dealership in the country is multi franchised. They may not share the same site but they are all part of a larger group.



Its also a lot tougher for dealers to make money out of finance / insurance products now. I can see a rationalization of dealers across many brands in the coming year or so. I think early 2019 will see a bigger sales hit as manufacturers like Holden have been furiously registering demos to keep their numbers looking good, they cannot sustain it for much longer. Ford has also had dealers registering as many demos as they can so they can advertise them online. To advertise a car it needs to have 1500 kms on it. This will affect them sooner then later as they will run out of room to keep registering cars.


I can see Dec and Jan being a bad month for Ford.... Theres been a huge issue with Ranger plant changes which has put some cars back 2 months...

[suttoo]

Originally Posted by hackney

There is already a lot of Ford dealers “multi franchising”.My local dealer already sells,MG,Kia,Isuzu ute,Mitsubishi,Maserati,Mercedes & a few others.He also bought out a existing Holden franchise(to sell only Holden’s though)There is no way you could survive on selling Ford on it’s own.Cheers

There is a way, we have been doing it since 1980. We might be one of the last single franchises left though

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

That Endura is not a MY2019 though is it SP ?

Yes we get a MY19 but with the old motor. Don't ask me why but people question me when i say its too dear simply because it is. Same old story we get a car that dated with old motors for top dollar. No different to the Mondeo really, only reason I bought one was because it was dirt cheap and is only a shopping trolley that does 35k a year. By the time I'm done with it it will be worth scrap metal .