The Age: End of the road nears for Falcon

[jamesson1980]

Originally Posted by HSE2

....Mulally has been quoted as saying.... "We "Ford" know what people want to buy. You might not know what is best for you but we sure do."

I'm almost insulted by his confidence..

[GT69]

Originally Posted by jamesson1980

I'm almost insulted by his confidence..

That came from the next door neighbor of a member. don't read anything into it

[ieatsports_cars]

Originally Posted by Cobra

IF Falcon was a shorter wheel base smaller 4 door sedan about the size of a 3 series bmw, weighed about 1500kg with the coyote V8, it would be a weapon. Basically a 4 door mustang.

what is the point of having a weapon if we can only do 99kms on queensland highways ! I WANT FALCON AND TERRITORY TO STAY !!!!
WHY DONT FORD EXPORT THE FALCON TO AROUND THE WORLD !!! INSTEAD OF CANNING IT ! IF THE FACT ARE TRUE

[jamesson1980]

Originally Posted by GT69

That came from the next door neighbor of a member. don't read anything into it

.. yeh but it does sound quite American wouldn't ya say..

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by GT69

That came from the next door neighbor of a member. don't read anything into it

What you can read is how damaging this reporting is and one can't blame the media either.

People are certainly reading arrogance about the US (perceivably) telling Australia what is good for them what they need and what they will get.

Accuracy, as usual, doesn't count for much.

The air of hope and positive aura that has surrounded Ford recently can be undone very quickly. Our club president is a forum member and I have not long left his house. He fully expects the paper intends to run a negative article for what is essentially an official announcement, one where we know, hasn't occurred. The News Papers wanted a local reaction to the announcement.

Which was what exactly?

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by MRFGXR6

Saw the sad news on TV today. I reckon stuff the Yanks, they had previously tried to sell their crap to us for many years and it didnt work. We as the consumer obviously thought the cars were no good other wise every Australian driving a ford would have one. I looked at a mondeo in July 08, went to open the bonnet and the lever came of in my hand the thing was a total rubbish, and if that's the type of quality the Americans want to force on us then I can literally say get stuffed ford. So endless to say I came home with the FG XR6, a much better choice. We here in Aus produce a great product with an exceptional strong following to back it up. Its a car that young and old have enjoyed from the XR to FG, all these cars we have grown up with and the Falcon love it or hate it is in our blood.
One other concern is the production workers at Fraud what is the inevitable surmise for them, are they destined for the chopping block as well. Sad considering their jobs are most likely to be outsourced over seas by ford to make more profit to fatten their purse. Its a double edged knife for any involved. These are sad times indeed, shame on you Fraud and shame on you Alan Mulally.

I bet if the title of this thread, and the news announcement were "Ford Australia to spearhead the next global platform" you wouldn't be so down on your sorrows.

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

front wheel drive come off it make taurus all wheel/rear wheel drop front damn wheel on a large car I and many others don't want it rear and/or all watch everybody who is an enthusiast in the slightest get all wheel drive ones and pay a massive amount for them, and whats more if we lose the local manufacturing look forward to spare parts prices blowouts and huuuuuuuuuuuuge waits on parts because they have to be shipped from the usa, not impressed about us getting force fed front wheel drive, and whats more the taurus is smaller going to give is the mustang and the other better cars from the usa ? or we get the taurus and thats all?

this is what you get ford australia for doing a good job making a good car that is reliable, you get it in the back of the neck for doing a good job and we get shovelled crap compared to what we once had... sad very sad....

The reward for Ford Australia building the best RWD (for the budget) is - as we've already seen, them getting the T6 - will be them getting preference in developing the GRWD... which WILL happen.

Originally Posted by HSE2

Which would see my worst scenario enacted, switch to Holden.

Never ever will I buy a FWD large car. If you have to introduce AWD to give RWD character and appeal to the market then the baseless comments that any decision will be cost driven and not market compliant, is utter rubbish.

AWD erodes the very basis of a front wheel drive rational.

While Holden continues to offer RWD Ford will be forced to withdraw from the Australian market. No point importing a product no one wants in any sort of number.

Worst possible scenario - I'd get the Mustang.
And Falcon won't die, refer to this
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...9&postcount=64

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

Dad just came in the door and goes to me "They're cutting the Falcon". The problem is pretty much everyone here believes the media.

I trust you explained to him they've been saying this about the Falcon since way back when.

Originally Posted by GT69

And if they keep it up the Falcon will be dead long before its replacement is due. The speculation will get to people (think mitsubishi) the falcon is the only large car PICKING UP market share. So FORD executives need to STFU and stop putting the doubt cloud over the product.

reporter - 'and what about the future plans for the falcon'

Ford executives - 'the falcon is selling well, Its got a strong future'

End of interview.

If something concrete hasn't been reached, or the replacement isn't already on the production floor, I dont see why they keep putting speculation out there.

Nice post. But, you just don't know with the media, they can twist a story any way they like.

Originally Posted by Wally

It takes time to punctuate quoted sentences, to confuse the meaning.

I tend to share your doubt, because there is a dire shortage of the smirk emoticons from the usual suspects who regularly infer they have the inside barrier on Ford secrets. As litmus tests go this news seems to have taken many by surprise.

:the_finge :the_finge :the_finge :the_finge :the_finge :the_finge Try that on for size!

Originally Posted by phillyc

So, Ford Australia is increasing market share, will be expanding production by increasing line rate (which has been strongly speculated), have turned a profit, further integrated their engineering within One Ford and invested nearly a billion dollars to go away?

I don't think so.

Mullaly said "Mustang may share a platform with Falcon" Where is the exclamation point?!

Originally Posted by phillyc

Changed the punctuation of the quoted text.

"Another new platform. Just like the Falcon. That is going to be RWD for Mustang. Were going to have every one of those. There is no reason why we can't have it in Australia."

Read, in that manner, the Mustang will get a platform like the Falcon's. Both cars could be offered in Australia.

Also note, that it is possible for Ford Australia to help develop the Mustang.

The reporters/journo's and I use both terms loosely, have their own agenda. They have written it to raise hysteria and increase clicks/sales/viewers.

Originally Posted by phillyc

If that is the case, then there is a good chance we could make Mustang AND Falcon here.

The Falcon was down less than 3% sales in an overall market down 8% and a segment down 15-20%. Commodore dropped by 13%.

Falcon is again picking up market share, sales are static as the plant is at capacity.

Ford is making money.

Why are there so many damn negatards?

Phil FTW!

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I bet if the title of this thread, and the news announcement were "Ford Australia to spearhead the next global platform" you wouldn't be so down on your sorrows.

The reward for Ford Australia building the best RWD (for the budget) is - as we've already seen, them getting the T6 - will be them getting preference in developing the GRWD... which WILL happen.

Phil FTW!

Thanks Falc'man. The hysteria is a product of two things, the deliberate twisting of the stated facts & the passion that the Falcon supporters have for the product.

I wanted to encapsulate what was mostly good news. Forget the headlines, forget the spin. Concentrate on what was actually said and the context of what was asked and where it was asked.

The context is as follows:
Venue = North American International Auto Show (where Ford won both Truck of the Year = Transit Connect & Car of the Year = Fusion Hybrid).
Context = World launch of 2012 Global Focus.
Reporters = Australian bias & largely anti-Ford.

Of course Mullaly/Kuzak etc are going to be spruiking the benefit of global models. They were launching an upcoming one (Focus) & had the global Fiesta on hand too.

Burela was the head who developed Fiesta. I'm confident he was there to help with that and discuss other business (GRWD).

Back to what was said. Mullaly said "Another new platform. Just like the Falcon. That is going to be RWD for Mustang". Mullaly also said "Mustang may share a platform with Falcon".

Hello Mr Forest. Meet Mr Tree & Mrs Tree.

[sxckevo]

Originally Posted by [Tonko]

FWD Falcon.... No thanks, i'll go somewhere else.



Havent seen this in a while:
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 74 (61 members and 13 guests)

: ahhh mate what i don't get is why you say you will go else where if the falcon goes FWD but under your user name you said 'can't stand traitors' you need think about what you write it : , why can't you just buy the newest falcon at the time and keep it till it dies like stated on here many times before

[Windsor220]

Well yep the story is getting around. Just on the 7pm project.
Hughesy "We cant let the Falcon die"
Carrie "Its not the best looking car is it?"
Some guy I cant remember his name "Im a Holden man, get rid of it"

Maybe Mulally should of said nothing. This is going to be bad publicity even if it is taken out of context.


Another thing, if Falcon does die, will Commodore follow suit?

[kezzer]

Won't happen, stupid bloody media. A shared platform maybe, but fwd no way haha, ill leave it at that, ill wait 5 years.

[mitch]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

I think you will find that Holden are probably not far behind in making a business decision like Ford, based on the poor current state of affairs of their parent company.
Just remember that a decision to stop producing the Falcon in Australia will have huge implications for both Holden and Toyota who all share local component manufacturers.
But business is business and if the cost of retooling for the next model Falcon cannot be amortized efficiently then why would FoA bother.

Would you run your business at a loss to satisfy a few loyal clientele ?

good post cams290 a glimpse of rational thinking, to the majority of you so called blue bloods and gloating holden trolls(sheep), FFS take a deep breath will ya.

if Falcon as we know it goes, and NOBODY from Ford has said it definately will, who in their right mind thinks commodore will survive. As far as i know holden imports everthing else like Ford and who knows yet if the daewoo cruze will succeed even when aussies are eventually if ever going to build it

Falcon is here for the next few years at least and Ford sounds like they could be here for quite a while yet. Whereas GM is BANKRUPT and who owns holden?

We have all heard for years now Falcon is dead but funnily enough its still here and going relatively well with great things to come ie: coyote 5.0L. So dont panic yet.

I live in WA and have heard nothing about this on the tv yet(just watched 7 news nothing) sounds to me like a slow news day over in the east today.

just a little out there thought to finish. Great news for Ford AUS, could be panic buying of current v8s, keeps sales ticking over before holden killing coyote gets here mmnnnn.

Sorry to ruin your plan Marin

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Well yep the story is getting around. Just on the 7pm project.
Hughesy "We cant let the Falcon die"
Carrie "Its not the best looking car is it?"
Some guy I cant remember his name "Im a Holden man, get rid of it"

Another kick in the guts by mainstream television. On what has proven to be a superior car to its rivals in many ways. What has brought on this hatred for the Falcon so much? It's no wonder the general public are so misinformed.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

IF this comes about and thats a big IF I think the part that will lets say upset ford faithful in aust. is that the yanks keep a RWD mustang for their market almost exclusively and shaft the oz falc. I think that would cause a major revolt around here and nothing FWD they send here will be taken up by ex falcon owners in any large numbers. Would be like when they dropped the V8 and sales slid for a few years.....then a return of the 8 maybe falcon will go into hibernation for 2-3 years and return bit like dejavu.
In anycase my cars will just have to last longer weekend fun and keep replacing the daily's as I for one wont drive a FWD any way you wrap it.

Actually Falcon overtook commodore sales in the era of no ford V8.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by mitch

good post cams290 a glimpse of rational thinking, to the majority of you so called blue bloods and gloating holden trolls(sheep), FFS take a deep breath will ya.

if Falcon as we know it goes, and NOBODY from Ford has said it definately will, who in their right mind thinks commodore will survive. As far as i know holden imports everthing else like Ford and who knows yet if the daewoo cruze will succeed even when aussies are eventually if ever going to build it

Falcon is here for the next few years at least and Ford sounds like they could be here for quite a while yet. Whereas GM is BANKRUPT and who owns holden?

We have all heard for years now Falcon is dead but funnily enough its still here and going relatively well with great things to come ie: coyote 5.0L. So dont panic yet.

I live in WA and have heard nothing about this on the tv yet(just watched 7 news nothing) sounds to me like a slow news day over in the east today.

just a little out there thought to finish. Great news for Ford AUS, could be panic buying of current v8s, keeps sales ticking over before holden killing coyote gets here mmnnnn.

Sorry to ruin your plan Marin

try the abc http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I take Mullally's comments as referring to Global RWD, how the hell some journos missed the hint and went off on a total tangent that Falcon is dead is beyond me.

Ch 10 news this morning had a picture of a Toyota Aurion during the story, saying it was the Falcon. Just goes to show how much the media JUST ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO CLUE.

Indeed. I haven't had time to read every post in this thread so apoligies if i repeat an earlier point.

BUT, i see this as a hyperactive beat up of epic proportions. The difference in tone between some of the reports on this issue, even those using exaxtly the same quotes, is graphic. Its editorializing, not reporting.

Firstly. the mondeo will underpin the new Fusion. It will not be the same car (to my knowledge) but be a top hat...i.e. Fusion may or may not share panells with mondeo but they will be called somethign differnt. The precedent of sharing platforms but not cars is set. As long as 80% commonality is possible Ford wont care what you call it.... With Mondeo and Fusion likely to go close to being taurus sized, is it not possible Ford will take Taurus, Lincoln models and Falcon/Mustang to create a GRWD...go incresingly upmarket. Ford has continually said it is still interested in purusing GRWD....so why woudl these latest coments imply different. For me, the question is when and how GRWD comes about, and which cars (including some which are current FWD/AWD) will use it.

Given the high weight of the current taurus, i think a RWD based car would not be much heavier. Mustang needs to move with the times eventually, if only because its competitors are/will be. IRS will be a must sooner rather than later etc. With mustang/falcon likely to share the same engine/s in the medium to long term, it ends up pretty obvious.

The bigger issue though is, as mullaly says, a business decision. Ford has obviously worked out that mustang must be RWD...it wont' sell without it. Now the problem in aus is not whether ford can sell a FWD large car, its whether they can call said car a falcon. I suspect they can't. If for no other reason then FPV etc. will not work with a taurus like FWD/AWD setup. So if ford can't have a falcon, can ford aus still makek money. Answer....NO. Falcon is still the breadwinner locally, and even if local production stopped a large car in the falcon mould would be needed to avoid bit losses in market share. The gamble of spending more on a GRWD based is falcon is likely more palitable then the punt of canning falcon to replace it with a taurus as the new ford aus large car. That would be a risk of huge proportions...like coke changing its colour to green tomorrow because red aluminium paint has done up in price by 20%......hmm, not worth it.....

Finally, how could so many hints about GRWD in recent months come out, Falcon be seen in such positive light by the head honchos, and this just not matter because of some cryptic clues from dearborn. I reckong MB, Mullaly, Ford etc. are all just having a quiet chuckle at all this hand ringing as they go about their future plans. We need to remember that the 'new' taurus, FG, mustang etc. will not need all new platforms till aprox 2013-2015. That is some time from now, and i don't see how the option that all these cars of simlar size/appeal will not coverge somehow. Its funny how 2 of the 3 are RWD, yet apparenlty its not the FWD/AWD car that will be changing. For me, Taurus may very well remain FWD (presumably off an enlarged mondeo/fusion platform) but mustang/falcon/lincoln go RWD on a GRWD. This will send those cars increasingly upmarket, but given the sales split on FG this is already happening....

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Scotty85

........ What has brought on this hatred for the Falcon so much?.....

Maybe they had an unpleasant experience on a pro Ford forum. Thank goodness there isn't a car branded "Brawlhall". LOL

[mitch]

Originally Posted by burnz

try the abc http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

oh yaaah a report Falcon must be dead - Whatever

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

And Falcon won't die, refer to this
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...9&postcount=64

Wow, that certainly is a different perspective on what Mullaly had to say.

One gets the distinct impression the media in general have it in for Ford, remember the Australian built Capri and the ABC's lemon beat up media hunt? The continual negative talk of Mitsubishi and the 380? People are like sheep and believe the garbage spewed out by mainstream media. "Oh geez, the Falcon won't be built in Australia anymore, Ford Oz must be going broke....better not buy a Ford product" and the myth gains momentum, steering people away from Ford.

Eff me the Falcon is a better car than the Commodore yet the media have nothing but praise of Government Motors - Holden Commodore wtf :

[fte50]

Sign of the times, as with everything made in Australia.
"We must forgo everything in order to remain competitive with China" - thats the argument every ceo pretty much emplies. What they forget though is the chinese eat a bag of rice a week whilst were eating $25kg steak & beer.

As much as i hate to think of it, car manufacturing in Australia is facing death row.
I had spent 21 yrs directly employed at GM and CONTINUALLY witnessed the outsourcing of jobs, and the constant 'excuses' to justify and to HIDE their true agenda - profit at any cost, whilst our workforce continued to shrink.

Ford IS EXACTLY the same, if not worse.

The problems started with the easing of what was the 'Button" plan and stripping of minimum local content laws. This has affected Aus. jobs at a rate of approx 40% job losses over the past 2 decades. 1988 GM local content was approx 85% vs 40% today.
The main problem though lies with both former and current govt not having the forsight vision to acknowledge this problem, and its agenda not being able to stand up to international trade bodies and maintain/impose higher tarriffs on import cars, whilst our own cars being exported are heavily taxed.
I hear folks screaming "we should be able to buy an import car at a cheaper rate" - i agree however NOT at the detriment of our auto industry and the loss of Australian jobs.
Its these manufacturing industries which create the technology and build/develop the skill base for future generations and allow genuine carreer path with 'real' money earnings, which creates prosperity in return creating consumer spending. It also gives those people who werent academically gifted a real chance to be something and make a real earning for their efforts - again i hear the argument that there is dead wood, but my super consultant is what i call dead wood.

Back on track, its only a matter of time before it all winds up here. The US auto giants are now faced with "The RESECURING OF U.S OUTSOURCED JOBS" if they want govt assistance in the future, and all ready the American Auto workers Union are lobbying hard to get work back - What do you think killed our monaro - the U.S union already lobbied / signed with GM america that if exports exceeded 25,000 units pa, America would have to manufacture it OR import was to stop. I know there was already a case study done approx 3-4 yrs ago which defined the 6 cyl. engine plants as running on average at 50% capacity ....meaning eg: if you have 8 plants globally making the same 6cyl, close 4 plants and run the remaining 4 at 100%.

You be the judge and time will tell, but with a hungry American workforce vying to reclaim their manufacturing base, and a presidential administration facing desperate times with record unemployment and massive financial restructuring, the writing is on the wall.
Its a shame our parent companies are American :

[Loosecannon]

Since 888 aren't racing or buying the falcon anymore, they have ditch it.... yeah, they're to blame, gotta be them

[BDA Escort]

Just saw the story on the late 9 news, and hate to admit it, but if FoMoCo Aust. goes this way, then they might as well pack up completely and import everything. But that's only if they could sell anything here again, as that would mean the Aust. market was to actually like and buy the Falcon's replacement, which I'd highly doubt if we got a Taurus, or derivative of, or any large FWD Ford for that matter.
After all, Mitsubishi couldn't sell a large FWD to our market that really was a pretty good car and was built here, and look where that got them, so what hope does Ford have with a sub-standard FWD that's imported at the expense of a good RWD that supports Aust. jobs? Toyota's position is slightly different, as it's large FWD's are kept alive by small car sales that are big enough to float other models, but no doubt that would change very easily too. The fact that Toyota builds them here helps their large FWD cause too.
In the end, GM-H would have to go the same way as Ford, as there's no money in a market that has no real opponent, spelling the death of the true Aussie car forever, leaving us with POS's from the US. Happy days...........

[burnz]

i wouldn't worry too much Sounds like a chase for cash for me...no doubt govco will hand over hundreds of millions

[greenfoam]

The only thing for sure is if Ford AU don't come out this morning and say, The Falcon is staying 100%, this story allready has enough momentum in the public and media to end the Falcon in Mitsubishi style. You have to be very careful to not let rumours get out of control when the public and hence media are 65+% Holden and such a rivalry has been nourished and let exsist over the years by both camps. That kind of thing can easily bite you on the *** if/when it gets too one sided

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Wow, that certainly is a different perspective on what Mullaly had to say.

One gets the distinct impression the media in general have it in for Ford, remember the Australian built Capri and the ABC's lemon beat up media hunt? The continual negative talk of Mitsubishi and the 380? People are like sheep and believe the garbage spewed out by mainstream media. "Oh geez, the Falcon won't be built in Australia anymore, Ford Oz must be going broke....better not buy a Ford product" and the myth gains momentum, steering people away from Ford.

Eff me the Falcon is a better car than the Commodore yet the media have nothing but praise of Government Motors - Holden Commodore wtf :

Even worse, half the members that have posted here, carry on like sheep and believe it.

Originally Posted by Wally

Maybe they had an unpleasant experience on a pro Ford forum. Thank goodness there isn't a car branded "Brawlhall". LOL

Judging by your attacks of this place and it's members on ls1.com.au, it appears you're the only one experiencing a bad time on AFF.

Why can't you show a little respect and restraint like all the other pro-Holden members of this forum?

[BTTB]

I don't know the dimensions, etc of the current mustang...
but why cant the build a 4 door sedan based on its underpinnings ?

[greenfoam]

Originally Posted by GTWORKS

I don't know the dimensions, etc of the current mustang...
but why cant the build a 4 door sedan based on its underpinnings ?

No reason I guess but it's a fairly retro machine, it is however pretty light

[burnz]

Originally Posted by GTWORKS

I don't know the dimensions, etc of the current mustang...
but why cant the build a 4 door sedan based on its underpinnings ?

for my money the mustang should have FG underpinning, get rid of that live axle.

[eb2fairmont]

Originally Posted by burnz

i wouldn't worry too much Sounds like a chase for cash for me...no doubt govco will hand over hundreds of millions

Probably not. Last time i checked ford wasn't spelt HOLDEN. So they didn't get 170 million to build the cruze here, nor a 200 million line of credit.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Well yep the story is getting around. Just on the 7pm project.
Hughesy "We cant let the Falcon die"
Carrie "Its not the best looking car is it?"
Some guy I cant remember his name "Im a Holden man, get rid of it"

Lucky no one watches the show, that will be canned before the Falcon does.

I'll wait for the official announcement.

But if it does come to happen, I wont buy a FWD car. I love the Falcon, couldn't give a stuff about Ford.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by GTWORKS

I don't know the dimensions, etc of the current mustang...
but why cant the build a 4 door sedan based on its underpinnings ?

Being a fastback/coupe, it needs the proper space for the rear seat to sit lower than in a sedan, thus requiring less space to put an IRS in, hence solid rear axle.

The SRA isn't that far off handling-wise from the Camaro. It's better on a circuit, and better down the strip, and it keeps the weight down.

I see your point. But. Mustang, imo, should remain unique. It deserves it's own separate chassis, but at the same time should also be available globally. Offer the Mustang GT here at the same price as the SS or XR8 and see what happens after that.

If they do as you say it would end up 200kg heavier (think Camaro, which is based off the VE/Zeta platform). A pony car should be not so heavy.