Mullaly confirms Falcon and Mustang to share platform from 2016 - Page 10

Road_Warrior · 20-01-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Confirming my butt!!!! He makes it sound as if Mulally confirmed, by word and intent, that "....yes, the Falcon will be built on the Taurus platform....", which NEVER happened. He is making a speculation based on a speculation.

What ever happened to journalism? If journalists would have done this 10-15 years ago they would be fired for doing such an irresponsible thing.

Steve

More to the point I'd like to know what (if any) action Ford are taking against this particular "journalist" for his repetitive Ford bashing.

Does anyone know anything about him, or have a picture of him, err, it?

vztrt · 20-01-2010, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

What ever happened to journalism? If journalists would have done this 10-15 years ago they would be fired for doing such an irresponsible thing.

Steve

It went out the window when they sold news sources to large corporations.

Swordsman88 · 21-01-2010, 01:27 AM

It's funny because when dowling was at drive he was the ford kicker....then hagon sort of took over when he left. Now jez spinks got the gong. im sure these latest baseless, misguided and malicious stories are because of the earlier embarrasment, but the early stories were purely anti-ford motivated. Drive has been writing those stories for years....jez spinks (a pom!!) has just taken over.....

Either way, i can't believe so much effort is being wasted on a car that won't be revealed for 5 MORE YEARS....and a decision (internally) not even made for over 12 months. Proves that the journos have both nothing to write about that is relevant to here and now, and have a hard on for killing off the falcon and everything Ford.....

What we have here, my friends, is a bunch of losers!!

jpd80 · 21-01-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Either way, i can't believe so much effort is being wasted on a car that won't be revealed for 5 MORE YEARS....and a decision (internally) not even made for over 12 months. Proves that the journos have both nothing to write about that is relevant to here and now, and have a hard on for killing off the falcon and everything Ford.....

What we have here, my friends, is a bunch of losers!!

well said Swordsman88,
It's not enough for these little Holden apologists to gloat about their export
prospects, they then have to turn around and stick the knife into Ford.

Jezz Spinks has jumped the gun in my books, he's just cherry picked a second
hand quote from Angus McKenzie's Motor Trend, a know anti-Ford site.

I'm still seething that these people turned up to a major reveal of the global
Focus and all they could do is deliver their spin on a non-relative issue.

Chilliman · 21-01-2010, 10:02 AM

These pro-Holden motoring journos know that GM is in pretty bad shape. Like I said before, if the General doesn't start turning it around this year, i.e. start making a profit, then GM's second bankruptcy will be permanent.

Somehow, Jez and Angus have some mis-guided belief that if they can deflect attention away from GM by publishing flimsy articles based on third-hand rumours about Ford and RWD.

In the mean time, Ford will continue with their plan to build the best cars they can in each catergory. They started with the light car class and Fiesta, they've just moved onto the small car catergory and Focus, next they'll move onto the medium/large FWDs (Mondeo/Fusion/Taurus) - they will get around to RWD when they are ready; which convienently will be around the time that both the new Mustang and Falcon are due!

Wally · 21-01-2010, 11:10 AM

I'm not up with journalistic bias and such, but it seems to me, if there isn't a modicom of truth in the articles perhaps the intent is to draw out the truth by making up fanciful ones.

Logically Mulally has at least a five year rolling plan for the company that includes design motives, so to journalists/writers that would mean there shouldn't be any prevarication, even though they themselves are masters of the art. Let's face it, magazine writers are gossip columnists first, champions of truth, justice and the american way second.

**Fordman1** · 21-01-2010, 12:27 PM

Regardless of what the real story is, here are a couple of facts:

The No. 1 selling Falcon is now the XR6 - sporty looks, great performance and RWD.

The fleet hack is not as important as it used to be and Falcon is selling in greater volume in "higher series' ".

This needs to be VERY carefully approached and researched by FoA. This IS the biggest decision EVER for Ford in this country, and the pressure is greater than ever to 'tow' the corporate 'One Ford' line.

Ford make the right decision, Taurus = 'Epic Fail' in this country. It will be just another Camry....

Falcon is RWD NOT FWD or AWD. THAT IS THE FALCON BRAND.

Tampering with the tried and proven 'Falcon Formula' is disaster and Ford may just as well leave that segment if it does.

Brazen · 21-01-2010, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

The No. 1 selling Falcon is now the XR6 - sporty looks, great performance and RWD.

The fleet hack is not as important as it used to be and Falcon is selling in greater volume in "higher series' ".

Tampering with the tried and proven 'Falcon Formula' is disaster and Ford may just as well leave that segment if it does.

Is the current formula even working? They only sold 31,000 last year of the new model. When they axe the BF wagon, they will lose another 5,000 units, and as the FG gets older sales may fall further.

Maybe FWD and AWD with new platforms and drivetrains may be exactly what the Falcon needs to survive.

Oh and I think the comments about the high series being more purchased is grossly oversated. All that is happening is that the XR6 is the new fleet hack. With the last 5 Falcons I have rented they have ALL been XR6s, face it, Ford has just replaced the sales of one base model with another. Only 10% of Falcons are XR6 turbo, G6E turbo, and XR8.

Ghiadude · 21-01-2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Is the current formula even working? They only sold 31,000 last year of the new model. When they axe the BF wagon, they will lose another 5,000 units, and as the FG gets older sales may fall further.

Maybe FWD and AWD with new platforms and drivetrains may be exactly what the Falcon needs to survive.

Oh and I think the comments about the high series being more purchased is grossly oversated. All that is happening is that the XR6 is the new fleet hack. With the last 5 Falcons I have rented they have ALL been XR6s, face it, Ford has just replaced the sales of one base model with another. Only 10% of Falcons are XR6 turbo, G6E turbo, and XR8.

an more expensive fleet hack though and they are the most profitable arent they???? also did you count ute? territory? - They are ALL off the same line

Brazen · 21-01-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghiadude

an more expensive fleet hack though and they are the most profitable arent they???? also did you count ute? territory? - They are ALL off the same line

Im not so sure if they are that much more expensive, the rental companies are buying them for their standard large car, I doubt Ford are charging much more than an XT to get the business. Also the current XR6 36990 driveaway with Tech pack is significantly less expensive than the retail price of a XT.

Im not so sure about the ute, it has been strongly hinted that the ute wont continue after FG so the Falcon needs to survive solely on sedan volumes. Also Territory might be in the same boat due to OneFord.

Wally · 21-01-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

..... All that is happening is that the XR6 is the new fleet hack. With the last 5 Falcons I have rented they have ALL been XR6s, face it, Ford has just replaced the sales of one base model with another. Only 10% of Falcons are XR6 turbo, G6E turbo, and XR8.

Just like the Belmont got swallowed up by the Kingswood and then the Kingswood got swallowed by the Commodore.

EgoFG · 21-01-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Im not so sure if they are that much more expensive, the rental companies are buying them for their standard large car, I doubt Ford are charging much more than an XT to get the business. Also the current XR6 36990 driveaway with Tech pack is significantly less expensive than the retail price of a XT.

Im not so sure about the ute, it has been strongly hinted that the ute wont continue after FG so the Falcon needs to survive solely on sedan volumes. Also Territory might be in the same boat due to OneFord.

dude, either focus on you day job, or read. The ute's lifespan is more confirmed than the sedan.
Sedan for Sedan, Ute for Ute, and I could not be bothered honouring you by doing the maths, but most likely almost wagon for wagon (incl the high ground clearance one) the falc equals it competition.

being the fourth placed model in a country is not a death knell - especially for a platform car.

HSE2 · 21-01-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EgoFG

dude, either focus on you day job, or read. The ute's lifespan is more confirmed than the sedan.
Sedan for Sedan, Ute for Ute, and I could not be bothered honouring you by doing the maths, but most likely almost wagon for wagon (incl the high ground clearance one) the falc equals it competition.

being the fourth placed model in a country is not a death knell - especially for a platform car.

Dude - Chill. Play the ball not the man.

jpd80 · 21-01-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Regardless of what the real story is, here are a couple of facts:

The No. 1 selling Falcon is now the XR6 - sporty looks, great performance and RWD.

The fleet hack is not as important as it used to be and Falcon is selling in greater volume in "higher series' ".

Come this time next year, the Ecoboost I-4 Falcon will be here and is aimed
directly at government and private fleet sales. If it is as successful as Ford
thinks, it could nearly double sales. That could almost guarantee that the
next falcon will be RWD - Wouldn't that be great!

The I-4 will probably offer enough differentiation to prevent I-6 and V8
resale values from suffering due to increased fleet sales.

Funny how the media judges Ford's 2015 future on what's happening now
instead of where it will be in 12 months time......

vztrt · 21-01-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Is the current formula even working? They only sold 31,000 last year of the new model. When they axe the BF wagon, they will lose another 5,000 units, and as the FG gets older sales may fall further.

Maybe FWD and AWD with new platforms and drivetrains may be exactly what the Falcon needs to survive.

Oh and I think the comments about the high series being more purchased is grossly oversated. All that is happening is that the XR6 is the new fleet hack. With the last 5 Falcons I have rented they have ALL been XR6s, face it, Ford has just replaced the sales of one base model with another. Only 10% of Falcons are XR6 turbo, G6E turbo, and XR8.

Ford is sending out everything they are sellng (not like the old days where they had cars sitting in Broady for a year). If the wagon does go it means that there is room to build more sedans, utes and terri's without going through the expensive process of increasing the line units. Ford a looking at doing it now so this could be a very cheap way of doing it.

Road_Warrior · 21-01-2010, 06:48 PM

Not to mention the operational cost savings of not having to fart around with wagon-specific parts supply and manufacturing wagon panel blanks at the stamping plant - they will go from 4 body types down to 3, that extra capacity could come in very handy.

**Luke Plaizier** · 21-01-2010, 07:51 PM

But they are not building at capacity now? Why would they need to free up more capacity?

Where's the logic in this again?

I'm not convinced that the EB4 is going to do as well as they think - mainly because of the Hybrid Camry. What it needs to succeed is either:

* they pull a rabit out of their hat and get it to be more economical than the Camry Hybrid, or
* it has marginally higher consumption but dramatically better quality or driveability.

It will make more sense that the SIDI 3.0 for sure, which strugles to better the economy of the I6 in day to day driving, but I think that landscape will change significantly. If Ford Oz could do a super economical diesel like the econetic, that would be a different story. And yet Ford refuse to even contemplate the Diesel Falcon. Insane.

Lukeyson

vztrt · 21-01-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

But they are not building at capacity now? Why would they need to free up more capacity?

Where's the logic in this again?

I'm not convinced that the EB4 is going to do as well as they think - mainly because of the Hybrid Camry. What it needs to succeed is either:

* they pull a rabit out of their hat and get it to be more economical than the Camry Hybrid, or
* it has marginally higher consumption but dramatically better quality or driveability.

They're not building at the Factories capacity, but what they are building is moving out and there is a waiting list for certain models. To increase (or decrease) the line speed is a costly process its not like turning on a tap. Having room for more units a month without increasing the line speed would be very cost effective, especially if it means more higher end models out the door.

**Fordman1** · 21-01-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

They're not building at the Factories capacity, but what they are building is moving out and there is a waiting list for certain models. To increase (or decrease) the line speed is a costly process its not like turning on a tap. Having room for more units a month without increasing the line speed would be very cost effective, especially if it means more higher end models out the door.

Factory capacity is 120,000.

They are building about 57,000.

They are building at "Line balance" capacity (what the plant was "down balanced" to in 2008 and 2009).

To build SIGNIFICANTLY more they need to hire, increase line speed and also rebalance Stamping, Engine, Bodyshop, Paint, and "Trim and Final".

They will pick up extra depand in 2010 (if it occurs) with Saturday's. I doubt there will be a line speed increase in the next 12 to 18 months.

It's a shame because the Falcon is in a diminishing market segment.

Hopefully the Territory update next year sells up a storm !

vztrt · 21-01-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

They are building at "Line balance" capacity (what the plant was "down balanced" to in 2008 and 2009).

There was two in 2006 (well trim and final was). Should be 550 to 270 units a day.

**Fordman1** · 21-01-2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

There was two in 2006 (well trim and final was). Should be 550 to 270 units a day.

And one in late 2008..

I think at that stage it went from 320 to about 260 ish.

jpd80 · 21-01-2010, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

I'm not convinced that the EB4 is going to do as well as they think - mainly because of the Hybrid Camry. What it needs to succeed is either:

* they pull a rabbit out of their hat and get it to be more economical than the Camry Hybrid, or
* it has marginally higher consumption but dramatically better quality or driveability.

It will make more sense that the SIDI 3.0 for sure, which strugles to better the economy of the I6 in day to day driving, but I think that landscape will change significantly. If Ford Oz could do a super economical diesel like the econetic, that would be a different story. And yet Ford refuse to even contemplate the Diesel Falcon. Insane.

Lukeyson

Hybrid Camry will be built in limited numbers, Toyota says 10,000 but I'm skeptical of that figure particularly when they will be priced at fleets......

Also depends on the driving done, Hybrids do much better in city driving where as EB Falcon will be seen as a big improvement all around. The difference between 6L/100km and 8L/100 km is not as much as 10L/100 km so maybe fleet managers take that into account as well.

Re diesel V6 - like the Duratec v6, it doesn't quite fit under Falcons low bonnet line...

I'm betting the decision on the V6 diesel falcon was made before last year's dramatic turnaround in product mix. Even with the diesel's premium price, I wonder if the same Ecoboost I-4 decision would have been made with the hindsight of strengthening private sales

vztrt · 21-01-2010, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

And one in late 2008..

I think at that stage it went from 320 to about 260 ish.

Your most likely right, wasn't there in 08.

Falc'man · 21-01-2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

... but I still think the article raised some interesting points.

Such as?

The guy is into selling magazines and hits. There is no substance in an article that is based on conjecture and guessing, is there.

To say "Falcon is dead", is to say GRWD is dead.

Simple. If I could make that any simpler I would.

Taurus will be coming here. Good. It's another option. Some will buy it, some won't.

Mustang is going global. We'll get that, too.

Lincoln is going RWD. It's current focus is the U.S.. Long term, it's global, just like Lexus is to Toyota, targeting Euros. So eventually, it will be offered here. That's why they'll call it the GLOBAL Rear Wheel Drive.

There'll be a LWB. And there'll be a SWB. Guess what the SWB will be called here. And then, guess what the LWB will be called here.

His reasoning as to why Falcon is dead isn't any more intelligent or mature than Jez Stinks' twisting the CEO's words.

Brazen · 21-01-2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Taurus will be coming here. Good. It's another option. Some will buy it, some won't.

So will we have Mondeo, Falcon and Taurus all sitting in the same showroom..? Thats starting to get a little ridiculous.

Falc'man · 21-01-2010, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

So will we have Mondeo, Falcon and Taurus all sitting in the same showroom..? Thats starting to get a little ridiculous.

Read what you doubt, and you'll understand why it isn't ridiculous.

Falc'man · 22-01-2010, 12:21 AM

Oh will someone please pull out the violins for the naysayers.

THAT VVVVVV is a reliable insider.

Quote:

In all honesty, nothing is really truly set in concrete yet, except for the general idea to leverage Ford of Australia's RWD engineering on a global scale. Lots of really good ideas on the table. Mustang and Falcon will share parts and some engineering, and Lincoln and Thunderbird will probably end up in the picture.

In my head, based on what I've heard as being on the table, combined with my own opinion, here's my take:

-There should be two versions of this new GRWD platform... one for sedans, one for coupes. The Mustang needs a unique rear-end and floorpan to accommodate the fastback. Regarding coupes, they should expand to include a Lincoln coupe and a Falcon coupe. Similar underpinnings, but the Lincoln built in Michigan, and the Falcon built in Australia, wearing Falcon-esque skin.

-Regarding sedans... there should be two general bodyshells. A more upright, formal bodyshell, and a swoopier 4-door coupe bodyshell. Sell the upright one as the next-generation MKS and Falcon (and a cheapo version as a police interceptor), and the swoopier one as a Thunderbird and a smaller Lincoln companion, MKR. The swoopier one can share some parts with the Mustang, even.

Nikked · 22-01-2010, 12:57 AM

Its interesting that ford canned the home built Focus to concentrate on the falcon...

Thats a good sign.

Road_Warrior · 22-01-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Oh will someone please pull out the violins for the naysayers.

THAT VVVVVV is a reliable insider.

Yeah I saw that post. Not doubting his info, but his opinion of multiple bodyshells is a bit unworkable. Unless he means top hat bodies?

madmelon · 22-01-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Yeah I saw that post. Not doubting his info, but his opinion of multiple bodyshells is a bit unworkable. Unless he means top hat bodies?

Aston martin manage to do ith with the DB9/V8 Vantage/Rapide- they're all using the same basic chassis underneath, with slightly different dimensions in certain critical places. Admittedly, they all look very similar but there is quite a range of sizes in their line up. If an essentially boutique company such as AML can do that then Ford should have relatively little trouble with a similar idea between Mustang/Falcon/Fairlane/etc sizes.