The greatest ever Australian performance car

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

The problem with this "great ever Australian performance car" is .... I've never seen one on the road. If it's that great .... we should be seeing more of them.

As mentioned ... if you want Australian performance .... the XR6T is it ... as that HSV engine is all-American ... not Australian (as mentioned earlier).

I agree. The OP is about greatest Australian Performance Car. The HSV is built here but has a USA donk. So if we are talking about a true Australian performance car then the F6 is hard to beat.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Pedro

I agree. The OP is about greatest Australian Performance Car. The HSV is built here but has a USA donk. So if we are talking about a true Australian performance car then the F6 is hard to beat.

G'day , This is a interesting, intriguing thread topic..
I think in the modern era , the closest we come to 'Australian' performance car is certainly the F6/XR6T purely because the Barra Turbo engine is a stonker by any standard and developed totally here I think.. Maybe the completely Aussie etc ..transmissions a little less so.. Just the same the last XR8's with the Aussie tweaked and rebuilt Coyote 5.0 V8 S/C. ..well.....wow..... Same with the GMH stuff over a myriad of factory or HSV variations.. including the new W1...
The 'greatest ever ' is very personal and subjective...Do you include racing results , touring/reliability reputation , tweakability possibilities etc etc.Who knows ?

Greatest respect to other Fords , GM Holdens , Chrysler and Nissan Turbo's etc and for legendary status that just stays strong all the time there is only one.. The 1971 XY Phase 3 GTHO Ford Falcon 351 for me...It's my "greatest ever" Australian performance car.. It's a legend by any measure as much as it's race outcomes , it could be bought from a Ford dealership if you wanted or could afford it..I think it was about $5200 to buy and the GT was about $300 less in those long gone days when it was literally Win on Sunday , Sell on Monday.. This is a nice article about the legend https://www.tradeuniquecars.com.au/b...i-buyers-guide ...Holdens in that era were the same ...You essentially could buy a real one..Not any more..
Cheers Rod...

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

But are they really "out of the factory" ???

Also happy to be corrected but from what I was led to believe "completed factory cars" are delivered to HSV who then strip them accordingly, ie whatever these were initially built as by Holden they are then delivered to HSV and have their engines pulled and a LS9 fitted plus all the other changes etc etc.

I cannot see how they could be classified as being a "factory" model when they were a base "factory" model when initially built by Holden and then modified by HSV.

Really? Going that far...So no FPV based car could be classified factory either, Tickford, etc.

Some really sour pusses here.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[ozrunner]

No sour puss involved just basic fact. They are all great Oz cars but they are essentially NOT factory produced and yes including the others you mention.

A "factory" car is one built down either Holdens, Fords or Toyotas Oz factory production lines not one subsequently modified by another entity be it HSV, Tickford or FPV.

If these bodies were wholly owned and solely run by Holden or Ford as their own additional performance production lines then yes they could be classed as factory productions but they are not having private owners also involved.

There's nothing wrong with calling the W1 Oz's greatest performance car other than the inference it is factory built.

It is an approved HSV aftermarket contribution just like the Tickfords and FPV's also were

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

No sour puss involved just basic fact. They are all great Oz cars but they are essentially NOT factory produced and yes including the others you mention.

A "factory" car is one built down either Holdens, Fords or Toyotas Oz factory production lines not one subsequently modified by another entity be it HSV, Tickford or FPV.

If these bodies were wholly owned and solely run by Holden or Ford as their own additional performance production lines then yes they could be classed as factory productions but they are not having private owners also involved.

There's nothing wrong with calling the W1 Oz's greatest performance car other than the inference it is factory built.

It is an approved HSV aftermarket contribution just like the Tickfords and FPV's also were

The thread is greatest ever Australian performance car.

It is not defined what is "Australian" nor what is meant by "performance car."

From my end I take Australian to be a vehicle that has been materially built by an Australian company, significantly different from what you can buy from overseas. So Tickford, FPV and HSV in my mind = Australian built.

Performance car- what- top speed, acceleration, track capacity, ability to be a very fast high speed tourer on rough country roads, and for its time in comparison to what was available elsewhere in the world, or simply everything irrelevant of time to now?

Seems to me this HSV may be the best all round Australian Performance car ever built in Australia irrespective of time, but it has fallen behind the competition from the world.

Taking time and competitive against rest of world into account, I think I would roll for the Ford Phase 111 GTHO - was it not the fastest 4 door for its time in the world.

[Chopped]

Australian?

Weird, I thought Ford and Holden are both American owned....

[arronm]

Performance is generally measured over the 1/4 mile.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by arronm

Performance is generally measured over the 1/4 mile.

I assume that to be just one measurement of a performance car. Just lik 0-100, 100-0, skid pan, circuit times, etc.
Giving an overall assessment of the performance​ of a vehicle; engine, chassis and brakes.

I guess the Dodge Demon is an example of a car built for 1/4 mile.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[asagaai]

Ok good:

1. No agreement as to what is an Australian car

2. No consensus as to what constitutes a "performance car".

At least we now know this thread has no hope. Maybe we should ask Malcolm Turnbull what is an Australian car- or rather-what is the extinct Australian Car.

[FTE]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

It is an approved HSV aftermarket contribution just like the Tickfords and FPV's also were

HSV isnt an aftermarket tuner, builder etc. It is a licensed secondary manufacturer.
Walkinshaw Performance is an aftermarket contribution to those who want more out of their factory HSV or Holden cars.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by FTE

I guess it depends on what is deemed "factory".
Holden doesnt own HSV but do have an agreement.
All HSV cars start their build at Holden as an HSV, that means HSV have their allocation and Holden begin the build for them. They aren't a Commodore then get made into an HSV. They're earmarked well before production begins.
Holden begin the build and in the past have also installed the engines and transmissions for them to reduce cost. They did this even back in the 5.7l stroker days.
When HSV get their cars at their site they finish them off so as a secondary manufacturer it is factory.

A little off topic but my VE HSV started life as a Calais and the compliance plate said it was a Calais.

[blue sleeper]

This debate is rather subjective. The GTHO was the fastest four door in the world, the E49 could beat v8s in a straight line and through corners with a humble 6. The BA XR6/Typhoon changed the way we looked at power for a generation and the Miami GT plus the LSA GTS redefined V8s. So I think it's a massive case of take your pick.....

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Pilko FNQ

Couldn't warrant 170k for this unit, however would like a 2017 SS and have the last offerings from Ford and Holden in my garage.

I have similar sentiments.

I don't see value in 170k for a tricked up police car. An amazing achievement with a host of worthy upgrades but the price elevates the car away from its heartland fan base.

The SS/SSV/Redline stays true to the whole "V8 for the people" muscle car vibe and just seems to be a better balanced package. I would also have no problem parking the last SS next to the XR8 in my garage.............and that's coming from a VERY FIRM Ford man!

[40RDT]

Great aussie performance car, would have been awesome if FPV made something like it before shutting shop...

[Express]

Originally Posted by FTE

I guess it depends on what is deemed "factory".
Holden doesnt own HSV but do have an agreement.
All HSV cars start their build at Holden as an HSV, that means HSV have their allocation and Holden begin the build for them. They aren't a Commodore then get made into an HSV. They're earmarked well before production begins.
Holden begin the build and in the past have also installed the engines and transmissions for them to reduce cost. They did this even back in the 5.7l stroker days.
When HSV get their cars at their site they finish them off so as a secondary manufacturer it is factory.

HSV is actually a joint partnership owned by General Motors and Walkinshaw Performance and always has been.

GM weren’t that silly they were not going to have some control and allow the possibility of another debacle like the Brock episode to occur.

Its Walkinshaw Performance that is now branching out into other endeavors not HSV, if there isn't any more Holden or GM supplied cars on the horizon HSV will soon be dead.


.

[MITCHAY]

I'd bet Ford could have done much more with the 6 and 8 but the fact is they did not. They did however put out some great cars.

The GTF is very fast but I'd be pretty certain the W1 is at least capable of the same top speed if you do the same mods or similar at worst maybe a bees dick more.

But I doubt we will see it happen since most are wrapped in plastic which is a shame.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

The GTF is very fast but I'd be pretty certain the W1 is at least capable of the same top speed if you do the same mods or similar at worst maybe a bees dick more.

Well, they both need the limiter removed.

The GTF in the Bowe top speed run only had a strengthened tailshaft put in as a precaution, not for extra performance. Bowe got 297 kmh. Be interesting to see if they used a lighter stiffer carbon fibre 1 piece unit whether the GTF would have cracked 300 kph.

The W1 with limiter removed, (and I consider even if it gets a further upgraded tailshaft for strength like the one Herrod used in the GTF,) is projected as having a top speed of as "HSV says the potential is there for the GTSR W1 to hit approximately 293km/h in sixth gear at 6600rpm (the LS9’s maximum revs)."

Close but no cigar for top speed with the GTSR W1.

You must remember that the GTF has 4 valves compared to 2 valves per cylinder in the GTSR W1, and where it really comes in with the more efficient breathing afforded by 4 valves per cylinder is at top revs, where you want it for max speed.

So, unless you change the diff ratio in the GTSR W1 and it has the power to do it, the GTF remains the fastest ever built and tested 4 door car built in Australia, in essentially standard form with just the limiter removed.

So I actually disagree with your view on this, for reasons stated.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by asagaai

Well, they both need the limiter removed.

The GTF in the Bowe top speed run only had a strengthened tailshaft put in as a precaution, not for extra performance. Bowe got 297 kmh. Be interesting to see if they used a lighter stiffer carbon fibre 1 piece unit whether the GTF would have cracked 300 kph.

The W1 with limiter removed, (and I consider even if it gets a further upgraded tailshaft for strength like the one Herrod used in the GTF,) is projected as having a top speed of as "HSV says the potential is there for the GTSR W1 to hit approximately 293km/h in sixth gear at 6600rpm (the LS9’s maximum revs)."

Close but no cigar for top speed with the GTSR W1.

You must remember that the GTF has 4 valves compared to 2 valves per cylinder in the GTSR W1, and where it really comes in with the more efficient breathing afforded by 4 valves per cylinder is at top revs, where you want it for max speed.

So, unless you change the diff ratio in the GTSR W1 and it has the power to do it, the GTF remains the fastest ever built and tested 4 door car built in Australia, in essentially standard form with just the limiter removed.

So I actually disagree with your view on this, for reasons stated.

A bit out there reason, because the Ford is Dohc it has to be faster...
The GM motor has capacity and torque.

[FTE]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

A little off topic but my VE HSV started life as a Calais and the compliance plate said it was a Calais.

Thats the base of all HSV cars from VE onwards.
it was never a calais then changed, it was a planned build from that model.
in other words Holden didnt build a Calais then send it to HSV to be stripped and converted. HSV have allocated cars that have been made a certain way by Holden. So your "Calais" was built on the Holden production line with HSV specific items such as different wiring looms etc for LED lights and different instrument cluster, boot lid with pre drilled holes for different spoilers. List goes on.
engine is already in it too (except on rare occasions like W427's 7 litre and W1 LS9)

[FTE]

Originally Posted by Express

HSV is actually a joint partnership owned by General Motors and Walkinshaw Performance and always has been.

GM weren’t that silly they were not going to have some control and allow the possibility of another debacle like the Brock episode to occur.

Its Walkinshaw Performance that is now branching out into other endeavors not HSV, if there isn't any more Holden or GM supplied cars on the horizon HSV will soon be dead.


.

HSV is and always has been privately owned by Premoso. Premoso is owned by the Walkinshaw family

[roddy1960]

G'day ...As per thread additions below
Maths problem ....John Bowe + Wheels + Stuart Highway + GTF Ford Falcon - speed limiter - no other modifications + safety scrutineering and closed road section = 297 kmh...(this)......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zVTMAOiL-8&t=119s ..255 kmh with speed limiter.. Cheers Rod..

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by asagaai

Well, they both need the limiter removed.

The GTF in the Bowe top speed run only had a strengthened tailshaft put in as a precaution, not for extra performance. Bowe got 297 kmh. Be interesting to see if they used a lighter stiffer carbon fibre 1 piece unit whether the GTF would have cracked 300 kph.

The W1 with limiter removed, (and I consider even if it gets a further upgraded tailshaft for strength like the one Herrod used in the GTF,) is projected as having a top speed of as "HSV says the potential is there for the GTSR W1 to hit approximately 293km/h in sixth gear at 6600rpm (the LS9’s maximum revs)."

Close but no cigar for top speed with the GTSR W1.

You must remember that the GTF has 4 valves compared to 2 valves per cylinder in the GTSR W1, and where it really comes in with the more efficient breathing afforded by 4 valves per cylinder is at top revs, where you want it for max speed.

So, unless you change the diff ratio in the GTSR W1 and it has the power to do it, the GTF remains the fastest ever built and tested 4 door car built in Australia, in essentially standard form with just the limiter removed.

So I actually disagree with your view on this, for reasons stated.

We don't know yet what the top speed of the W1 would be with limiter removed...all we know is they project it would be approximately 293km/h, it might be more (or it might be less). You are treating a theoretical approximate figure as fact. Wonder if projected top speed of W1 would have been accepted without question if it was 297 or higher?

Quite likely which of the two is 'fastest' would come down to the direction of the wind on the day. Just on that, was the 297km/h Bowe got the top speed from a single run or is it the average of two runs in opposite directions as is the accepted practice?

And I don't understand why you say changing the tailshaft is a safety mod which adds no performance, yet you also wonder if it would have cracked 300km/h if they used a lighter stiffer tailshaft. Who is to say the 'safer' tailshaft that GTF was modified with was not lighter and stiffer than the stock unit - which by your theory would have increased its top speed compared to if they had simply done nothing more than remove the limiter?

[Yellow_Festiva]

the W1 burns almost 3L/100km of fuel at idle.

Really..... gearing must be really high if it idles at 100km/h.

Hang on, it's also Australia's most fuel efficient car as well!!!

[SensationFG8]

TBH bit of a silly argument going on here.

It's the most expensive (when bought new).
It has the most performance in all but MAYBE 1 area and it would want to for the $ being asked.
There is no car that has been built in Australia that could consistently beat this car in any test you threw at it.
If it wins 9 out of 10 tests it's the best performance car, no ifs no buts.

Is it the best value for money performance car? No it's not, not by a long shot. An extra 80k has only bought you a few tenths to 100 and a few tenths off the 1/4.
Would I buy one? If I won lotto probably, but it's a long way down a list that has some much better cars on it.
Is it built in Australia? Yes it is, it came out of one of our factories. Sure it has some overseas parts in it, including the engine, but so do lots of our cars.
Is it ugly as sin? You bet, but that's sticking with the HSV DNA. It's probably not their worst looking effort either...
Is it the best drivers car? That's subjective and I dont think I'd personally like the amount of electronics involved in it. I prefer some of our more raw cars.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I have similar sentiments.

I don't see value in 170k for a tricked up police car. An amazing achievement with a host of worthy upgrades but the price elevates the car away from its heartland fan base.

The SS/SSV/Redline stays true to the whole "V8 for the people" muscle car vibe and just seems to be a better balanced package. I would also have no problem parking the last SS next to the XR8 in my garage.............and that's coming from a VERY FIRM Ford man!

It's as tricked up police car as a C63 AMG is a tricked up C200 Taxi.
I'd suspect there is a fair amount of engineering effort to install the LS9 (dry sumped) + ensuring the chassis can handle the power.

[Whitey-AMG]

It's a Herculean car....
Lots of engineering gone into it.

Lots of LOL memories at FPV with their issues on FG firewall flex at 3/4 of the power level this thing is putting out.

I don't think the HSV vision was to make this accessible to everyone as some of the comments on here are suggesting. Their aim and intent was to make the best performance car they could without bean counter constraints. Kudos to them and to those that can afford it.

They have achieved something special which deserves the accolade.

[arronm]

Take the 160k and see what cars can be purchased. Doubt it would be a Commodore.

[Sprint XR8]

Originally Posted by FTE

HSV is and always has been privately owned by Premoso. Premoso is owned by the Walkinshaw family

Walkinshaw have no ownership of the HSV brand and logo. All HSV trademarks are owned by General Motors.

[GO FURTHER]

I'd rather buy a Mustang GT for $65K... Take it to Herrods and get the supercharger kit fitted for another $22K.

For $87K .... 507KWs ... 0-100 in 4.2 secs.

Would give the Commodore a run for its money down the 1/4

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by arronm

Take the 160k and see what cars can be purchased. Doubt it would be a Commodore.

Don't think it matters, they'll sell most of, if not all of them anyway.
For an Australian car it is a bloody good last hurrah.

A lot of cars in that price range that wouldn't be on my list.
#1 on that list, albeit a little less, the Lexus IS-F.

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

I'd rather buy a Mustang GT for $65K... Take it to Herrods and get the supercharger kit fitted for another $22K.

For $87K .... 507KWs ... 0-100 in 4.2 secs.

Would give the Commodore a run for its money down the 1/4

Irrelevant to the discussion, not Australian and wouldn't be a factory stock car.