How is the VE so fresh??

[Franky]

I still think Ford have the advantage, they created the BA for half the price of the VE and I still think it'll be a highly competitive car.

Ford do need to update the cars slightly as with each model and they are doing that as we speak. No doubt that in 2 years Holden will be facing a similar dilema, will our update compete with an all-new Ford model? If Ford play it's cards right the BF is good enough to hold off the competition for a little while yet.

[Abacus]

As has been said, the basic BF bodyshell goes back to AUI, so it's getting on. The fact that it still looks so good is a reflection of how progressive the AU shape was at the time of release. It's a shame Ford stuffed up the AU1 release so bad.

I've seen a few VEs close up. In my view, they are undoubtedly a more "modern" shape than the BF. Apart from the stupid bum-up tail lights, they look pretty damn good. The SS front bumpers look a bit tacked-on after-market to me, but the more mainstream models, and in particular the SV6, are very well proportioned.

I good part of the VE's "freshness" comes from the fact that the car is styled to look smaller than it actually is. For a car that has pretty much the same proportions as a BF, it gives the illusion of being a bit smaller, around Camry size.

What is notable is that the VE doesn't date the BF anything like the way VT dated the EL. With a new Falcon out in 2008 Ford may well leapfrog the VE big-time.

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by Franky

I still think Ford have the advantage, they created the BA for half the price of the VE and I still think it'll be a highly competitive car.

Ford do need to update the cars slightly as with each model and they are doing that as we speak. No doubt that in 2 years Holden will be facing a similar dilema, will our update compete with an all-new Ford model? If Ford play it's cards right the BF is good enough to hold off the competition for a little while yet.

Which dilema are you referring to as I fail to see them having any major problems having just launched an all new model to a market that buys more of their cars than anyone elses?
I think it is them that have held off Ford not the other way round.

I'm sure when the Falcon replacement finally arrives in 2 years it will be an outstanding package, though anyone would be a fool to think Holden wouldnt have a few aces up there sleeves to freshen up what is a brand new platform that can be produced in multiple formats

BTW, I dont recall reading anywhere that the new VE design was "ground breaking". Some other stuff in the car perhaps but not the body design.
Holden said nothing about the car untill it was released so the only hype has come from their fans

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by HSE2

I am probably the only person in Australia that thinks this but I reckon they look best on paper then disappoint slightly in the flesh.

No .. for what it's worth I'd agree. I just posted on LS1 how "funny" the Omega looks..

I got my first good look at a VE Omega today, and first impressions were that it looks "funny". It's kind of a sporty bodyshell modified to daily hack duties. Reminded me of XA-XC Falcon coupes with the big guards and aggressive styling, all ready for big wheels and slammed to the ground .. but in stock form with skinny tyres and high-ride height looked ugly. The VE Omega with it's flared guards and whatnot just reminded me of this ...

[Wezza]

Originally Posted by Franky

I still think Ford have the advantage, they created the BA for half the price of the VE and I still think it'll be a highly competitive car.

Hmmm, the BA still has alot of AU in it, the AU cost somewhere around $600 million to develop, then the BA cost an extra $500 million. So you could say to develop the right car, it cost over $1 billion.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I've never heard anyone say they love the VE.

I LOVE THE VE.

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

But I'm an inbecile, so what do I know?

got it in one.

they didn't just spend $1bn on design they spent it on R&D, platform construction, testing, etc.

and yes i don't hate the VE. I like Ford but I am not blind, I can appreciate a decent car and so far I think the VE is pretty decent.

[Wezza]

^^
There should be more like you Clev!! I'm the same towards Fords.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

No .. for what it's worth I'd agree. I just posted on LS1 how "funny" the Omega looks..

Seen the VE in dealers yards but only one I've seen 'for real' was parked in Murray St Gawler this morning.

Just an Omega....I was prepared to like it but it just didnt look 'right'. Something just doesnt gel about the VE's looks. Ridiculously high suspension doesnt help Omega.

Dont get me wrong, I dont mind VE. Looked great on Tele, but as I see them in the flesh they just dont add up to me...bold and brash they are, but pretty and a cohesive design/look? Not in my eyes....

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

got it in one.

they didn't just spend $1bn on design they spent it on R&D, platform construction, testing, etc.

and yes i don't hate the VE. I like Ford but I am not blind, I can appreciate a decent car and so far I think the VE is pretty decent.

Yeah, I'm aware of that.
There are other costs than the design itself...

I'm not THAT much of an imbecile. But I'm still an imbecile. :

[Dilan]

Originally Posted by Wezza

Hmmm, the BA still has alot of AU in it, the AU cost somewhere around $600 million to develop, then the BA cost an extra $500 million. So you could say to develop the right car, it cost over $1 billion.

Didn't that $500million INCLUDE the terry as well? :

I must say the Omega has crap all road presence, but the SS-V on the other hand are really nice!

[JPFS1]

The design in the flesh looks very 'skewed'. That's a word that comes mind, particularly for the base models.

Proportions of the flairs look wrong and out of place, the ride height is just too high, and the design treatment on the rear really make the tail lights look small.

Other than that, it's not too bad.

[xbgs351]

To me it looks like a VS Commodore with A9X guards on it.

[Wezza]

Originally Posted by Dilan

Didn't that $500million INCLUDE the terry as well?

I didn't think it did?? I thought the Territory was another $400 million or so?

[Kachow]

I've never seen so much banter and chat about the styling of a new car....it's just amazing..and it's not even a Ford !

The thing that instantly stands out to me as "fresh" about the VE, is how old it makes the BF.....simply by the new proportions and cool stance the car has. The platform and proportions are new, simple as that.
It's so much wider than the old car, has a much longer wheelbase, yet the overhangs are so small. Really nice stuff.
You could argue the graphic details like tail and headlamp are conservative, but I think Holden did the same with the VT when it was launched {new generation body, simple graphics}. I think VE has been given a simailar methodology.

This is not to say BF is a bad design, far from it.................it's just on it's last years of it admirable service.

[Kachow]

Originally Posted by Abacus

The SS front bumpers look a bit tacked-on after-market to me, but the more mainstream models, and in particular the SV6, are very well proportioned.

Dude...SS and SV6 are basically the same car externally. [except slightly smaller spoiler on SV6 } WTF are you on about ???

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Kachow

Dude...SS and SV6 are basically the same car externally. [except slightly smaller spoiler on SV6 } WTF are you on about ???

Had my first VE on road experience today. They do stand out with a frontal area of akin to a hammer head shark. Base design far more cohesive then the sport models with those models probably the worst looking VE Holden’s. Really ruined the front, but then I have always been a fan of the VY look. Still think they are the best looking Holden so what would I know.

Guess Holden would have to be disappointed with some of the comparison reviews coming in but it was to be expected. Ford will face the same issues with their new car.

[Full Spectrum]

When you sit back and work out money spent it's well over a billion $ on the AU-BA. And why because the BA needed some extra equipment to move it away from the AU.

I don't think holden will be upset it's new car has came out ahead of the BF. They haven't had a 6 win a comparison in many many years maybe never. The v8's have always been a good match up but the 6's is where ford has the advantage.
In the past commodore was a harsher day 2 day car to drive. Now the shoe is on the other foot it's the better of the 2 day 2 day driving and comfort, Now they say the BF is harder riding like they did with the BF-VZ test's.
When Orion is out it's suspension set-up wont change a great deal at the rear with Blade IRS but it's front is said to take the Territory steering set-up. So in handling wise they wont be far off then you would guess. It will come down to looks. that is why i see the 2 being closer then ever before.
In 2 years time the all new Falcon will be ready to rumble, And the VE then maybe on it's next new model will be fine tunned and refined to be better then it is now. They will bang heads closer then ever before.

[Disco1986]

BF=BA which is 2002 + a few small changes eg gear box
VE= 2006

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Disco1986

BF=BA which is 2002 + a few small changes eg gear box
VE= 2006

and VE is what ford did to BA back in 2002....

Believe me, ford really don't need to change much to leapfrog the VE again.

Ford's IL6 with 6spd auto will be on-par, if not infront, than the Holden equivalent.

I think you can put some money on Orion focusing on weight savings, fuel economy and obviously a fresh design.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Disco1986

BF=BA which is 2002 + a few small changes eg gear box
VE= 2006

VE= $1 Billion VS. BA;s $500 Million Investment just to Catch Up and just Pip the Falcon on refinement levels...Disco1986...If it didnt better the Falcon in ALL respects, i would be suprised and guess what...it hasnt- hense I am suprised..they supposedly started designing the car in early 2000 ... IMHO its nothing to be that proud of.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Disco1986

BF=BA which is 2002 + a few small changes eg gear box
VE= 2006

AU was 700 mill + and in the middle there the 500mil which is almost a new car was stuck into the BA. Adding things that weren't planed until Orion.

Originally Posted by JEM

and VE is what ford did to BA back in 2002....

Believe me, ford really don't need to change much to leapfrog the VE again.

Ford's IL6 with 6spd auto will be on-par, if not infront, than the Holden equivalent.

I think you can put some money on Orion focusing on weight savings, fuel economy and obviously a fresh design.

Your starting to sound like tom gorman now

Originally Posted by Bucket

VE= $1 Billion VS. BA;s $500 Million Investment just to Catch Up and just Pip the Falcon on refinement levels...Disco1986...If it didnt better the Falcon in ALL respects, i would be suprised and guess what...it hasnt- hense I am suprised..they supposedly started designing the car in early 2000 ... IMHO its nothing to be that proud of.

You mean 700mill AU and 500mill BA to fix the stuff up.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Your starting to sound like tom gorman now

Seems the man knows what he's talking about then...

[Full Spectrum]

No he and Mooney are just puppets.

[wickedxe]

i loved holden till i discovered: the commodore! the worst of which being the VL and the VN. ford at least produce their own six.
Why is everyone being hard on the BA/BF? when the front end of the VE is a (poor) attempt at a BA. and the fake wood trim on the dash of the VE= so so sad.
By the way, did anyone know that the VE uses more fuel than the BF? I rest my case!

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by wickedxe

i loved holden till i discovered: the commodore! the worst of which being the VL and the VN. ford at least produce their own six.

Yeah I agree with that.

Although the XFs and EAs, didn't have the performance image that the VL and VN had, atleast they had a Aussie built 6 Cylinder. (Love the Ford 6)











I still think the RB30 is the best engine, Holden never built. :hihi:

Ok maybe I'm biased, because I have one. :

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

You mean 700mill AU and 500mill BA to fix the stuff up.

Stuff up?? I had an AUII, my sister a VT, let me tell you the AU is 28,000 times the car the VT is, my sister feels the same, The AU was a pleasure to drive interstate,it is so quiet you forget the engine is on and think your coasting.
Compare with her VT which feels almost as rattly as my hilux diesel,hell even the roller cammed cleveland in my XA is almost as smooth,every time it drops a gear on a hill feels like the whole drivetrain is dragging on the road,and as for handling?
The VT wants to keep going straight when you turn in,the AU is actually pretty good,the only critisism with the AU is the looks, but they are soon forgotten when you drive the car..
Seems you only post on VE threads,or some "comparison" between commodore and Falcon, If the new commodore is so good,go and buy one sleek,then spend some time driving it on the road instead of the internet...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by nugget378

the only critisism with the AU is the looks, but they are soon forgotten when you drive the car..

And that's the stuff up, unforunatly the AU was/is such a good car but the looks let it down, and at the end of the day people wont drive what they consider an ugly car.

[LUXO_8]

Originally Posted by vztrt

And that's the stuff up, unforunatly the AU was/is such a good car but the looks let it down, and at the end of the day people wont drive what they consider an ugly car.

i have no issues driving my parents AU fairmont , its a damn nice car to drive...
it needs about 7 inches taken out of the rideheight though

[SSBUB]

i think the interior of the AU's were very bland - mates oldies have an au xr6 vct with leather etc, and its just dull inside, the dash layout is kind of odd looking. I dunno just not as comfy as the equivelant ss. Call me biased, but the BA was the saving grace, full stop.