Hoon drivers to be used in test of government's new GPS speed device

[durtyharry]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

care to publish these STATISTICS? its the biggets load of bull#Hit ive ever heard in my life, same for their great claim that doing 10km/h over is equal to being 2x over the limit for drinking.

.

Why dont you contact the TAC yourself and if you think they are lieing, and since you are the expert, provide your own evidence to what the correct stats are?

This thread is really about whether gps is appropriate or not. If you want to argue about the actual limits, perhaps start another thread?

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

sorry less time spent on the wrong side of the road the better, some brain dead moron like durtyharry doing 95 in a 100 would take about 1K to over take doing the speed limit, sorry rather do 120 get past the idiot and resume 100/110 what ever the set limit is...

You've missed the silver lining all together, you see when overtaking it is written that you shall overtake as quickly and safely as possible for the condition.

That's the first thing, so technically unless you are doing something stupid at the time you cannot be fined for speeding while overtaking, provided of course you're not doing some ridiculous speed and only overtaking to get by all the slower traffic.

The second is this, see what you forgot is that if all cars are fitted with the device then all you need is the rego of the slower car and they will have to pull up their speed also in any proceedings. "So you see your worship, it is with this evidence that I present before the court that I make my motion to have the charges dropped due to a necessary overtaking manouver that was unavoidable at the time the device detected my exceeding of the set speed limit for that area". If you're going 150 well good luck with that, but maybe not.

It's always better to use their own devices and rules/regs against them, they have to allow it in eveidence, if they choose not to then at the same time you can ask to have your detection removed from eveidence at which point they then have nothing.

Always look on the bright side of life.



Now to this electing of a representative, as much as I'd love to put my hand up and I'm sure many know I'd be an adequate opponent to most in parliament, if it ain't with words then we shall draw pistols at sunrise, I'll bring my derwents. Great idea, only trouble is we don't all live in the same area, which would be better if we actually wanted someone to have a chance.

So I've come up with a better idea.......form a breakaway state, we could go under the Rebel Confederate flag of the US civil war, then we petition the UN for acknowledgement of our plight and to declare us a new country. We could have no speed limits and parties all the time, wet t-shirt competitions every Friday night and burn out comps all weekend.........what say ye to that?? arrrrr

[UNR8D]

reply to durtyharry

cant post link as im currently at work, I will however post the stats tonight once home if you wish to debate this, however if you like, have a look in other threads ear marked road toll/qld speed camera's and I have full links and pics of the stats I am talking about in those threads... unlike some I do research to find out the auctual truth rather than swollowing propaganda.

by the way, you faild to answer my question about SITTING in the RH lane...

[UNR8D]

So I've come up with a better idea.......form a breakaway state, we could go under the Rebel Confederate flag of the US civil war, then we petition the UN for acknowledgement of our plight and to declare us a new country. We could have no speed limits and parties all the time, wet t-shirt competitions every Friday night and burn out comps all weekend.........what say ye to that?? arrrrr

where do I sign up...

[flappist]

GPS is not a problem.

google "gps jammer"

[Wardo]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

The point I was trying to make was that the tyranny of time seems to make us all a little less than logical when discussing issues like this, ie the original post waxed lyrical about the importance of the book and the relevant themes in it ,but lost track of the author,(George Orwell), who also wrote another similar little book called Animal Farm, about what you can convince people of if you instill the right amount of fear and misinformation in them.

You are of course correct and I apologise for comments made, I think I will return to my original position of not liking written communication as it is far to easy to miss the point. zdcol71 =1 Wardo = 0.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

You've missed the silver lining all together, you see when overtaking it is written that you shall overtake as quickly and safely as possible for the condition.

Happy to stand corrected if wrong, but the last I heard it was illegal to exceed the posted speed limit at any time, particularly whilst overtaking.
(I'm sure it is in the same section of the book as overtaking on double or solid single lines,amongst others)
Again though the point is if you need to exceed the limit to pass someone doing 5-10% under, change the limit, not bag out the guy who is legally driving under the limit.(limit being the operative word... it's just that ,a limit, not a mandatory speed you have to travel at)

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by flappist

GPS is not a problem.

google "gps jammer"

till you get fined for using it.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I agree with you absolutely this needs to happen but why cant the existing motoring bodies grow a pair of balls and start raising hell for motorists' rights??????????? why cant they I ask?

because no forums are willing to put their balls on the line to make this happen. all want to tiptoe around.

none of them want to be organised. none of them want to make a cohesive effort.

i'm talking

4x4 forums
mbike forums
commodore forums
street machine forums
all forums

allowing a voice and backing that voice are two different things

will the government tear strips off the first guy to put his hand up?? sure they will. they will try and demonise him, you know what though, it wont work.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by flappist

GPS is not a problem.

google "gps jammer"

You could probably just make it so the car wont start if it detects no GPS signal, except that wouldn't work very well when you went into a tunnel.

For the motoring groups not doing anything, couldn't we just form our own group and protest/be a pain in the *** to get news coverage? Except we'd all have to show up in Toyota Camrys because if someone saw a Falcon with a set of wheels, we'd all be targeted as hoons....

[mik]

if motoring groups tried to protest this , i reckon the powers that be would just pass it on to media as motoring club/organiseation well known as hoons etc ,etc, and do the discredit thing, its about public perception , with a bit of brain washing involved, you keep hammering the public enough ..........speed is evil speed kills, speed will make your ham sandwich go off,speed will make your beer flat, sooner or later the majority will believe everything the law makers say, no doubt in some cases its true but to blanket every road problem with speed is laughable, is there a mention of the bloke on the freeway that sits on the limit in the fast lane , then cuts across 3 or 4 lanes of traffic to make the off ramp cutting off 1 or 2 cars and causeing sudden brakeing by others , i`ve seen 2 possibly 3 motorist`s do that in the past fortnight.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by mik

if motoring groups tried to protest this , i reckon the powers that be would just pass it on to media as motoring club/organiseation well known as hoons etc ,etc, and do the discredit thing, its about public perception , with a bit of brain washing involved, you keep hammering the public enough ..........speed is evil speed kills, speed will make your ham sandwich go off,speed will make your beer flat, sooner or later the majority will believe everything the law makers say, no doubt in some cases its true but to blanket every road problem with speed is laughable, is there a mention of the bloke on the freeway that sits on the limit in the fast lane , then cuts across 3 or 4 lanes of traffic to make the off ramp cutting off 1 or 2 cars and causeing sudden brakeing by others , i`ve seen 2 possibly 3 motorist`s do that in the past fortnight.

really?

they can TRY to demonise every car club, but it will fall flat on its face the moment that a PARLIMENTERIAN comes out and states "the government is LYING TO YOU"


thats why you need someone on the same level as them.

and you need a well funded one.

and someone with a brain.

how many votes you reckon a well prepped wannabe parliamentarian would get if he came out and said

"i will back motorists"

"i will make sure that the government starts putting camera's in blackspots as they said they will"

"i will make sure i tell everyone where every last cent of fines is going"

"i will try my best to get uniform road laws"

"i will do my best to see highways upgraded"

"safety, not money is my No.1 Pirority"

"i will do my best to see more money go into traffic police, not more camera's"

(add more slogans here)

i reckon he would do quite well........

now we all know thats the state transport ministers don't have to meet with a federal independant, but bark loudly enough that they don't want to fix the system because they care about your wallet more, watch them come running.

and i guarantee police would love to see uniform road laws, and so would the public.

70+ % of all road deaths are attributed to innatention, how is more camera's/gps/locks/point to point's going to stop that?

[Kamshaaft]

The main problem wouldn't be funding, or finding a suitable independant candidate, but the 'small hurdle' of them winning in their electorate, where only votes from within that electorate count and so thus the widespread support will amount to little.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

The main problem wouldn't be funding, or finding a suitable independant candidate, but the 'small hurdle' of them winning in their electorate, where only votes from within that electorate count and so thus the widespread support will amount to little.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Xenophon

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Happy to stand corrected if wrong, but the last I heard it was illegal to exceed the posted speed limit at any time, particularly whilst overtaking.
(I'm sure it is in the same section of the book as overtaking on double or solid single lines,amongst others)
Again though the point is if you need to exceed the limit to pass someone doing 5-10% under, change the limit, not bag out the guy who is legally driving under the limit.(limit being the operative word... it's just that ,a limit, not a mandatory speed you have to travel at)

There's always bound to be one. :

Where, if you don't mind pointing it out, did I mention anything about solid lines, double single or even quadruple for that matter, first point.

Secondly, road hogs have actually been ruled against by a few years ago, trouble is the only time it's enacted is when they're slowing the coppers from their Maccas run, could be KFC or Hungry Jacks but that's not important.

And thirdly, when did I say to bag out the guy that was going slow, I said to use his speed as evidence to shoiw that you weren't exceeding the speed limit unnecessarirly. If you were simply passing a slower driver then you can show a just cause for the momentary speeding infraction, also if it was for an overtaking manouver then the GPS data, yours not his, should show you slowing down again once you have passed the slower driver back to the speed limit.

p.s. so when you overtake you make sure not to exceed the speed limit then do you?? if you say "of course I don't" then best you hand yourself in now because you sir, are a liar. :

[Kamshaaft]

Originally Posted by ltd on 20s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Xenophon

Yes...
...and? What exactly is that supposed to mean? I think we're all aware how to create hyperlinks, and that Sen. Nick Xenophon exists - which b rngs me to a point; awareness (read on)..

He does illustrate that if we were to get an independant member into parliament our issues would finally be voice and heard. Xenophon is a one man band, which works to his advantage since the media has some sort of self appointed responsibility to cover all parties more or less, and so as an individual politician he gets his word out there as much as Rudd, this week's leader of the opposition, or Gilliard.


But back to the main point - Independant isn't the key word here, electorate is.

The only reason I included independant is because it highlights the fact that it'll be even tougher without the large proportion of votes that hopefuls get not for them but for Labor or Liberal, whichever they belong to. An independant doesn't have that massive advantage on their side..

...and sadly even if he or she did have all the right policies many people don't bother or don't care to see the individual hopefuls and not just tick the Labor/Liberal rep by default.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

really?

.........

70+ % of all road deaths are attributed to innatention, how is more camera's/gps/locks/point to point's going to stop that?

PLEASE....Tell me where this comes from???
According to the weekly road fatality cummulative report submitted to (QLD) parliament... (https://www.webcrash.transport.qld.g.../roadsense.pdf)
fatalities involving drivers/riders attributable to undue care and attention amounted to 10.8% of fatalities.(averaged out over 4 year period).
Fatalities involving drivers/riders attributable to speeding amounted to 23.7% of fatalities over the same period. Again,the pros and cons of current speed limits and associated penalties for disregarding them is debateable , but if it is debateable lets put some thought into the figures.(I am quite happy to be accused of being duped by the figures presented to parliament, and being conned into believing what"they" want me to believe, but I am happy to go there if the alternative is to believe someone shouting out that "70+% of all road deaths are attributed to innatention"!!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by durtyharry

According to the quote you provided, the TAC statistics.

Statistics which actually are a fine example of just how easily numbers can be fudged to arrive at a pre-determined outcome.

http://www.rsconference.com/pdf/RS000039.pdf
http://www.rsconference.com/pdf/RS020113.PDF

Lambert re-analysed the data and got the same result people have been getting for years. IOW, its not the speed relative to the speed limit that determines risk, its the speed relative to the free traffic speed (ie. speed differential).

Among the conclusions..

The average driver accelerates at a speed that in conjunction with the road environment means that:
• On urban 50 km/h zone roads, about 10% - 15% of travel could result in “speeding
• On collector 60 km/h zone roads, about 60% of travel on these roads could result “speeding”; and
• On arterial 60 km/h zone roads about 95% of travel on these roads could result in “speeding”
• Enforcement efforts are concentrated on long straight and generally wide arterial road segments because as noted above 95% of travel on these roads could result in “speeding”. Yet drivers in general correctly see these wide straight arterial road segments are safe for travel at higher speeds. There is no evidence of a crash problem at these mid straight locations.

Make of that what you will...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

You've missed the silver lining all together, you see when overtaking it is written that you shall overtake as quickly and safely as possible for the condition.

and yet here its written that you are not to exceed the limit when overtaking..

http://www.police.sa.gov.au/sapol/se...otice_faqs.jsp

should I believe you or the police?

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

PLEASE....Tell me where this comes from???
According to the weekly road fatality cummulative report submitted to (QLD) parliament... (https://www.webcrash.transport.qld.g.../roadsense.pdf)
fatalities involving drivers/riders attributable to undue care and attention amounted to 10.8% of fatalities.(averaged out over 4 year period).
Fatalities involving drivers/riders attributable to speeding amounted to 23.7% of fatalities over the same period. Again,the pros and cons of current speed limits and associated penalties for disregarding them is debateable , but if it is debateable lets put some thought into the figures.(I am quite happy to be accused of being duped by the figures presented to parliament, and being conned into believing what"they" want me to believe, but I am happy to go there if the alternative is to believe someone shouting out that "70+% of all road deaths are attributed to innatention"!!

sorry, thats meant to say 70% of accidents, not deaths. went a bit overboard there...

however

http://www.adrawa.com.au/Surveys%20a...0Australia.pdf

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...18/2689559.htm

(how would stopping trucks driving between certain times as was suggested fix that?)

http://www.aami.com.au/Resources/File.aspx?id=122

and theres a thousand more links to choose from.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

Yes...
...and? What exactly is that supposed to mean? I think we're all aware how to create hyperlinks, and that Sen. Nick Xenophon exists - which b rngs me to a point; awareness (read on)..

He does illustrate that if we were to get an independant member into parliament our issues would finally be voice and heard. Xenophon is a one man band, which works to his advantage since the media has some sort of self appointed responsibility to cover all parties more or less, and so as an individual politician he gets his word out there as much as Rudd, this week's leader of the opposition, or Gilliard.


But back to the main point - Independant isn't the key word here, electorate is.

The only reason I included independant is because it highlights the fact that it'll be even tougher without the large proportion of votes that hopefuls get not for them but for Labor or Liberal, whichever they belong to. An independant doesn't have that massive advantage on their side..

...and sadly even if he or she did have all the right policies many people don't bother or don't care to see the individual hopefuls and not just tick the Labor/Liberal rep by default.

my point is is that he resigned from the state to go for a seat on the senate.

on his own. and won.

im sure with the right publicity someone backing drivers could get just as many votes.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

The main problem wouldn't be funding, or finding a suitable independant candidate, but the 'small hurdle' of them winning in their electorate, where only votes from within that electorate count and so thus the widespread support will amount to little.

You'd have to make sure its a member in the area with the most AFF members residing in it.

I know nothing about politics, nor do I really have an interest and all my posts I make on this forum are my opinion and I'm the 18 year old kid no one listens to but I say we try plan it out.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

There's always bound to be one. :

Where, if you don't mind pointing it out, did I mention anything about solid lines, double single or even quadruple for that matter, first point.

Secondly, road hogs have actually been ruled against by a few years ago, trouble is the only time it's enacted is when they're slowing the coppers from their Maccas run, could be KFC or Hungry Jacks but that's not important.

And thirdly, when did I say to bag out the guy that was going slow, I said to use his speed as evidence to shoiw that you weren't exceeding the speed limit unnecessarirly. If you were simply passing a slower driver then you can show a just cause for the momentary speeding infraction, also if it was for an overtaking manouver then the GPS data, yours not his, should show you slowing down again once you have passed the slower driver back to the speed limit.

p.s. so when you overtake you make sure not to exceed the speed limit then do you?? if you say "of course I don't" then best you hand yourself in now because you sir, are a liar. :

Happy to be the one :
I don't mind pointing out that I didn't imply you did mention anything about double single or quadruple lines..I actually did, and am happy to point it out again in reference to the fact that crossing them whilst overtaking ,is, as is speeding whilst overtaking,illegal,..What confused you about that?
Secondly, I'm sure road hogs have been ruled against. It's also an offence to impede or hinder the flow of traffic(ie travelling inappropriatley slow), What's your point.
Thirdly, man up a bit.. I wasn't referring specifically to you bagging out anyone, but show me anyone who has used your example of "just cause for a momentary speeding infraction (pure gold, by the way) in court and got away with it....(Well, my Lord,I broke the law cause the bloke in front was obeying the law????)

and finally ps.I never hinted that I have never broken a law doing anything on the road,let alone speeding whilst overtaking, I just don't scream "Revenue Raising" when I get caught

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Happy to be the one :
I don't mind pointing out that I didn't imply you did mention anything about double single or quadruple lines..I actually did, and am happy to point it out again in reference to the fact that crossing them whilst overtaking ,is, as is speeding whilst overtaking,illegal,..What confused you about that?
Secondly, I'm sure road hogs have been ruled against. It's also an offence to impede or hinder the flow of traffic(ie travelling inappropriatley slow), What's your point.
Thirdly, man up a bit.. I wasn't referring specifically to you bagging out anyone, but show me anyone who has used your example of "just cause for a momentary speeding infraction (pure gold, by the way) in court and got away with it....(Well, my Lord,I broke the law cause the bloke in front was obeying the law????)

and finally ps.I never hinted that I have never broken a law doing anything on the road,let alone speeding whilst overtaking, I just don't scream "Revenue Raising" when I get caught

It's a little late and I'm being a little frivolous, but I forgot one thing.....
:

[dom_105]

Maybe they can give one to Ken Lay

[opto]

Crush their cars and then turn hoons into guinea pigs, What is the government trying to do, start treating them like sub-humans..

[mik]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

really?

they can TRY to demonise every car club, but it will fall flat on its face the moment that a PARLIMENTERIAN comes out and states "the government is LYING TO YOU"


thats why you need someone on the same level as them.

and you need a well funded one.

and someone with a brain.

how many votes you reckon a well prepped wannabe parliamentarian would get if he came out and said

"i will back motorists"

"i will make sure that the government starts putting camera's in blackspots as they said they will"

"i will make sure i tell everyone where every last cent of fines is going"

"i will try my best to get uniform road laws"

"i will do my best to see highways upgraded"

"safety, not money is my No.1 Pirority"

"i will do my best to see more money go into traffic police, not more camera's"

(add more slogans here)

i reckon he would do quite well........

now we all know thats the state transport ministers don't have to meet with a federal independant, but bark loudly enough that they don't want to fix the system because they care about your wallet more, watch them come running.

and i guarantee police would love to see uniform road laws, and so would the public.

70+ % of all road deaths are attributed to innatention, how is more camera's/gps/locks/point to point's going to stop that?

you may be right .....or not, but i think there more people out there that don`t give a a rats about this stuff, and would rather have a few bob more spent on hospitals or trains than fix the road system no matter how flawed it is, back on topic

how many of us think the gps system would have a shifty monitoring system in the back ground (like the japanese whalers) for scientific purposes only of course .

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by opto

Crush their cars and then turn hoons into guinea pigs, What is the government trying to do, start treating them like sub-humans..

I recall reading another thread on the forum recently, where a lot of people were getting very vocal about what to do with the "hoon", (may I add, the pi$$ed hoon), that lost control of his car doing burn outs in a suburban street, killing a child playing in his front yard. Let's cut to the chase and start doing exactly that.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

The point I was trying to make was that the tyranny of time seems to make us all a little less than logical when discussing issues like this, ie the original post waxed lyrical about the importance of the book and the relevant themes in it ,but lost track of the author,(George Orwell), who also wrote another similar little book called Animal Farm, about what you can convince people of if you instill the right amount of fear and misinformation in them.
Misquoting Hitler and giving anecdotal tales of how fast we used to be able to drive down the Great Ocean road doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of repeat idiots on the road who probably need GPS monitoring because they refuse to believe there are rules of the road that ,agree with them or not, must be obeyed. There is a large enough motoring populace to lobby succesfully to have these laws changed if they could; many would call it apathy that they don't, but I am inclined to think that a large amount of people do believe that statistically, speed, if not in itself, but certainlly in conjunction with other factors,(read, drink, inexperience,mentallity etc) kills!
The majority of road users do not drive around at 150kph(random figure) for good reason, and if we are to set a speed limit ,then it has to be a LIMIT, not "only a couple of k over" ,or any other such excuse.
Dont use technology as an excuse to not get up and challenge things like speed limits, or any other issue.
Ps The grim realities predicted in 1984 are no more obvious today than they were 26 years ago, the scariest thing to come out of the book is the TV show that has turned a large part of the population into moronic voueyrs.

brilliant post.
I vote this one for best post i've ever read on this forum. keep up the good work!

[Stattic]

Originally Posted by Wardo

I shudder to think that anybody who has attended school isn't aware of 1984. It is a classic along with books like Lord or the Flies and Pride and Predjudice to name a few, Although no wizards or vampires so I can understand the lack of awareness

That being said I think the whole speeding message is becoming a non issue, I recently drove from Brisbane to Canberra and people driving at or just below the speed limit was by far the majority.

ahahahaha Orsen Welles...