HSV E3 adds race car technology

[Dave R]

I'm not sure why people are giving HSV a hard time about this, it's a great feature and further separates HSVs from regular Commodores. If FPV introduced something similar, I bet people over here would be jumping for joy. HSV are improving the breed - MRC, competition mode, launch control (that actually works unlike Ford's), this new diagnostic crap, the list goes on... FPV pretty much put a big motor in a Falcon with bigger brakes and better suspension. HSV are doing a whole lot more than that lately, you just can't compare a HSV product to an SS Commodore anymore in my opinion. HSV are really focussing on how their cars perform as a whole, not just how fast they are in a straight line - maybe this is why a GTS obliterates anything FPV makes around a track? People might call it gimmicky, yet nobody has actually sat in an E3 HSV and tried it out - people instantly dismiss it as crap. If that's the case, rip off your guage pods because if this interactive HSV system is a gimmick, words can't describe how gimmicky a guage pod is.

[irlewy86]

The screen sits far too low in the center stack to be usefull for anything on a track day anyway. What happened to the high mounted screens.

[Iggypoppin']

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I'm not sure why people are giving HSV a hard time about this, it's a great feature and further separates HSVs from regular Commodores. If FPV introduced something similar, I bet people over here would be jumping for joy. HSV are improving the breed - MRC, competition mode, launch control (that actually works unlike Ford's), this new diagnostic crap, the list goes on... FPV pretty much put a big motor in a Falcon with bigger brakes and better suspension. HSV are doing a whole lot more than that lately, you just can't compare a HSV product to an SS Commodore anymore in my opinion. HSV are really focussing on how their cars perform as a whole, not just how fast they are in a straight line - maybe this is why a GTS obliterates anything FPV makes around a track? People might call it gimmicky, yet nobody has actually sat in an E3 HSV and tried it out - people instantly dismiss it as crap. If that's the case, rip off your guage pods because if this interactive HSV system is a gimmick, words can't describe how gimmicky a guage pod is.

Well said mate, have some rep points.

[XR5-Boy]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I'm not sure why people are giving HSV a hard time about this, it's a great feature and further separates HSVs from regular Commodores. If FPV introduced something similar, I bet people over here would be jumping for joy. HSV are improving the breed - MRC, competition mode, launch control (that actually works unlike Ford's), this new diagnostic crap, the list goes on... FPV pretty much put a big motor in a Falcon with bigger brakes and better suspension. HSV are doing a whole lot more than that lately, you just can't compare a HSV product to an SS Commodore anymore in my opinion. HSV are really focussing on how their cars perform as a whole, not just how fast they are in a straight line - maybe this is why a GTS obliterates anything FPV makes around a track? People might call it gimmicky, yet nobody has actually sat in an E3 HSV and tried it out - people instantly dismiss it as crap. If that's the case, rip off your guage pods because if this interactive HSV system is a gimmick, words can't describe how gimmicky a guage pod is.

Def agree with you. You present many valid points and I think alot of this banter is due to the 'Ford vs Holden' Aussie hoo haa. I've driven both breeds, and I have my preferences on both. Frankly I think FPV need to get their act together and stop thinking about money. Yes the new engine is coming from FPV and that will give the cars a much needed improvement. But it's the little things like what HSV are doing which get them the return buyer. I mean, who the heck wants wheels on their FPV which are 3 models old?

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I'm not sure why people are giving HSV a hard time about this, it's a great feature and further separates HSVs from regular Commodores. If FPV introduced something similar, I bet people over here would be jumping for joy. HSV are improving the breed - MRC, competition mode, launch control (that actually works unlike Ford's), this new diagnostic crap, the list goes on... FPV pretty much put a big motor in a Falcon with bigger brakes and better suspension. HSV are doing a whole lot more than that lately, you just can't compare a HSV product to an SS Commodore anymore in my opinion. HSV are really focussing on how their cars perform as a whole, not just how fast they are in a straight line - maybe this is why a GTS obliterates anything FPV makes around a track? People might call it gimmicky, yet nobody has actually sat in an E3 HSV and tried it out - people instantly dismiss it as crap. If that's the case, rip off your guage pods because if this interactive HSV system is a gimmick, words can't describe how gimmicky a guage pod is.

You mean the same type of Launch control system that no other manufacturer uses because it destroyed clutches and drivelines. In fact the same launch control system they had to drop from the GTR because of so much negative feedback.

I'm sure if FPV had their engines delivered crate from someone else we'd see a lot more investment in other area's. There was a time when HSV just slapped sets of buckets and bodykits on cars.

[malazn mafia]

They should top it off by adding an arcade mode where a virtual HSV drives around on screen on a race track (controlled by the cars steering wheel/pedals/shifter with engine off) so HSV drivers can practice their driving skills from the comfort of their own garage

[Danny]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

There was a time when HSV just slapped sets of buckets and bodykits on cars.

Yeah mate, that was probably up to 1997. and we are now in 2010...
Look I reckon HSV's are one of the most Horrid gauche and goudy looking shitemobiles disgracing Aussie Designers, but you HAVE to hand it to them, when it comes to positioning themself as a more luxury and tech advanced car. This EDI system, MRC, Lane departure, blind spot warnings, Xenons and Projector headlamps and LED's are things Ford do NOT have, and I belive that they will not have on the Falcon soon.

Ive said it a million times. I jump into the XR6T ute and the F6 Ute back to back, the differences are the seats, the engine the brakes and suspension. That is IT. It makes you think why oh WHY won't someone at Ford GET THEIR ACT TOGHETHER and TRY, JUST TRY, to adopt something that TRULY makes us go, "oh, wow!" (and NO, the coyote is not enough, I'm talking strictly of these "gimmicks" that bring HSV's closer to a european standard than Falcon will ever be)

Def. my 2c worth.

[FPVSutto]

Tell me today is the 1st of April....... that makes me laugh.

[Iggypoppin']

Originally Posted by irlewy86

You mean the same type of Launch control system that no other manufacturer uses because it destroyed clutches and drivelines. In fact the same launch control system they had to drop from the GTR because of so much negative feedback.

I'm sure if FPV had their engines delivered crate from someone else we'd see a lot more investment in other area's. There was a time when HSV just slapped sets of buckets and bodykits on cars.

I heard this too, but, apparently the launch control feature in the GTR's had to be used in a certain way, and the people destroying the transmissions in the GTR's where not reading their manuals on the correct way to engage the feature.
I don't know how similar the HSV launch control is to nissans, but if HSV drivers are all gung-ho with their launches and end up frazzling a brand new clutch because they didn't bother to educate themselves on how to use the feature, I'd blame the driver, not the company.
That being said, I am not sure what the go with the hsv launch control is, so I'm just speculating.

[chrisfpv]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I'm not sure why people are giving HSV a hard time about this, it's a great feature and further separates HSVs from regular Commodores. If FPV introduced something similar, I bet people over here would be jumping for joy. HSV are improving the breed - MRC, competition mode, launch control (that actually works unlike Ford's), this new diagnostic crap, the list goes on... FPV pretty much put a big motor in a Falcon with bigger brakes and better suspension. HSV are doing a whole lot more than that lately, you just can't compare a HSV product to an SS Commodore anymore in my opinion. HSV are really focussing on how their cars perform as a whole, not just how fast they are in a straight line - maybe this is why a GTS obliterates anything FPV makes around a track? People might call it gimmicky, yet nobody has actually sat in an E3 HSV and tried it out - people instantly dismiss it as crap. If that's the case, rip off your guage pods because if this interactive HSV system is a gimmick, words can't describe how gimmicky a guage pod is.

Perfect.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

I'm sure if FPV had their engines delivered crate from someone else we'd see a lot more investment in other area's. There was a time when HSV just slapped sets of buckets and bodykits on cars.

Pretty much. FPV are slowly getting there. They now have engines that have the performance required. Hopefully with the FG2 the other areas will continue. GM doesn't have an engine (yet) that HSV can stick in their models.

HSV has done well putting this in, its the performance arm of the Holden cars so they will put this in even if it will be waank for most buyers. People are bagging this out yet people are getting angry over not getting to see the new wheels and stickers from FPV.

[vztrt]

HSV beefs up Grange

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257796000B11EA

Top-shelf V8 and new toys set to lift Holden Special Vehicles luxury flagship

6 September 2010

By RON HAMMERTON

HOLDEN Special Vehicles’ luxury Grange will get the high-output 325kW version of HSV’s 6.2-litre LS3 V8 engine in the ‘WM3’ upgrade of its Caprice-based long-wheelbase flagship.

The engine can be ordered in either petrol or – for the first time in an Australian-built production car – dual-fuel liquid propane injection (LPI) variants that HSV says produce identical performance.

The latest Grange, which is based on Holden’s recently launched Series II Caprice, has also been loaded with a bunch of toys for drivers who want everything in the toyshop, including a touch-screen ‘enhanced driver interface’ (EDI) that can deliver race-like data such as G forces and track lap times.

Co-developed with MOTEC – the same company that supplies V8 Supercar race ECUs and data loggers – the unit also helps the driver to control some of the new extras on the car, such as the bi-modal exhaust, rear-view camera, sat-nav and European-style Bosch blind-spot warning system, a first for an Australian-built car.

To go on sale towards the end of September along with HSV’s new short-wheelbase E3 range, which is yet to be unveiled, the updated Grange is expected to retain a sub-$90,000 price, with perhaps a slight increase over the current $87,990 sticker.

HSV’s Grange announcement today marks the start of a staggered launch for its new models in the wake of Holden’s VE Series II debut last week ahead of its October on-sale date.

The Grange will be the only car in the HSV range to get a power boost, shifting up from the 317kW version of the Corvette-sourced LS3 V8 that it shared with the ClubSport, Senator and Maloo to the 325kW variant that was previously exclusive to the performance-leading GTS.

The GTS is expected to retain the 325kW unit in the E3 upgrade, even though rival Ford Performance Vehicles has upped the ante with its new 335kW locally-developed ‘Miami’ supercharged 5.0-litre V8 based on Ford’s American-made Coyote.

The revised Grange gets a redesigned nose and tail, gaining the daytime running lights that were introduced on the short-wheelbase models at the ‘E2’ update.

But the biggest changes are evident in the cabin and under the bonnet, with HSV looking to lift the Grange’s appeal as Australia’s premium performance luxury car.

HSV managing director Phil Harding said the changes suited the character of the car.

“The Grange buyer traditionally wants the most luxurious and technologically advanced Australian-made car there is,” he said.

“The Grange has always fitted that description well, but the new styling, increased power and extra technology makes WM3 a compelling proposition for a luxury car buyer who is passionate about driving.”

The optional dual-fuel LPI system – developed in league with Orbital Engineering, which is also working on an LPI system for Ford Australia – was heralded for the HSV range back in December 2008.

Unlike traditional LPG (liquid petroleum gas) systems beloved of Australian taxi operators, LPI involves injecting the fuel in liquid form into the inlet port rather than as a gas vapour.

HSV claims the system can cut CO2 emissions by up to 15 per cent, without loss of power or torque compared with the petrol-only system. No fuel economy figures were quoted.

HSV says liquid injection provides cooler combustion and better fuel metering.

Engineering manager Joel Stoddart said the critical challenge was to make it work seamlessly across both petrol and LPG, without loss of performance.

“The good news from our perspective is that, when we have put people in a development car, they thought they were driving a normal HSV car,” he said.

The engine starts on petrol, uses LPI in the low-to-mid rev range, but switches to petrol when full power is required, all the way to the red line.

Depending on load and RPM, the changeover point between LPI and petrol is about 5300rpm.

HSV began its LPI development program when the price of oil spiked in 2008, fearing a buyer backlash against big V8 petrol cars if the high prices continued.

Mr Harding said LPI overcame the traditional LPG compromise of reduced running costs and lower emissions at the expense of peak performance.

“From the very beginning, we committed that we would not compromise on engine performance,” said Mr Harding. “LPI overcomes this problem.”

The LPI system will be a $5990 option on Grange, although buyers can qualify for a $2000 government rebate.

The main addition to the Grange’s interior appointments is the new EDI touch-screen driver interface that allows the driver to skip through a number of models and controls, some useful and some bordering on frivolous.

The system even allows the driver to record “oversteer and understeer events”, record lap times using GPS technology – with some tracks such as Bathurst’s Mount Panorama already pre-loaded – and display esoteric information such as manifold pressure and intake air temperature.

If you want, you can download all the data for analysis on a laptop, pretending to be Garth Tander’s race engineer.

The driver can also be a bit naughty by turning off the bi-modal exhaust control to open a valve in the exhaust for extra aural pleasure, or turn off the new blind-spot warning system that alerts the driver when objects are deemed too close to the side of the car.

HSV designed the graphics for the system in-house, with the emphasis on intuitive use.

[DJM83]

Albeit an interesting concept, i really dont see the point. Will HSV be able to 'check' to see what life the car has had when it is put into the dealer for problems relating to it seeing track time?

[vztrt]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/82580/hs...edi-in-detail/

HSV Enhanced Driver Interface (EDI) in detail
By George Skentzos | September 6th, 2010

Following the announcement of the restyled new HSV Grange WM3, Holden Special Vehicles has also introduced its all-new touch screen performance data interface.



Fitted as standard equipment to the Grange, the Enhanced Driver Interface (EDI) system constantly streams real-time vehicle dynamics and performance information to the touch screen in the centre console.



The EDI system has been developed in partnership with industry specialist Motec while the graphics and display were designed in-house by HSV’s styling department.

“Our customers are passionate about driving, and this system is about delivering race bred technology in a new engaging way that is relevant to a road car,” HSV’s Managing Director, Phil Harding said.

“We are confident our customers are going to love the way they can access data, and interact with their car.”

Similar to the system in the Nissan GT-R, the HSV EDI system is comprised of 11 different sections of information: Driver, Race, Stopwatch, Data Logging, Stability, G Force, Dynamics, MRC, Gauges, Bi-Modal Exhaust, and Side Blind Zone Alert (SBZA).



The G Force page displays longitudinal and lateral G force while the Driver page displays a combination of driver inputs including RPM, gear selection, and accelerator and brake positions.



The EDI system gets very interesting when you switch over to the Race page where it utilises GPS technology to display track maps, record lap times, record fastest lap, as well as lap gain and loss with most Australian race tracks already programmed into the system such as Bathurst.

For simpler racing scenarios such as hill climbs or even just the daily commute to work, the Stop Watch page provides a simple way to keep track of time.



The Dynamics page is similar to the G Force page, although it uses sensors to identify and display oversteer and understeer.

A Gauge Selection page allows you to display your preferred gauges on-screen, with drivers able to choose from Instant Fuel Economy, Intake Air Temperature, External Air Temperature, Torque, Power, Manifold Pressure, Elevation, LPI Level (on LPI only), and Exhaust Pressure (on cars with Bi-Modal Exhaust only).



“One of the challenges with designing the graphics is in making the data accessible to the driver,” HSV’s Chief of Design and Styling Julian Quincey said.

“For instance, it is not terribly engaging to get a whole stream of data in the form of numbers or a line graph. If you are a race driver you get used to that, but in a road car it needs to be more intuitive.”

“Making the display intuitive was the most important thing for us during the development process, and it really required a whole new level of integration between design and engineering.”

A Fuel Economy page provides detailed information on fuel economy history, and for Granges with LPI will incorporate combined petrol and LPG fuel ranges.



The Bi-modal page allows the driver to select the exhaust modes, choosing from normal, idle off, and off.



Finally, a Side Blind Zone Alert page allows you to turn off your Side Blind Zone Alert if you choose.



HSV is yet to release official confirmation on when the Enhanced Driver Interface (EDI) system will be available in the rest of the HSV range.

[vztrt]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/82614/20...ection-option/

2011 HSV Grange Liquid Propane Injection option
By Brett Davis | September 6th, 2010

Backed by the government’s $2000 cash back rebate, the new WM3 HSV Grange is now available with a factory-fitted liquid propane injection package. This could mean less damage to the environment and to your wallet.

Different to conventional liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) cars, LPI injects LPG straight into the combustion chambers as a liquid. The liquid propane is then ignited at a much lower temperature compared to conventional petrol engines meaning high performance outputs are still very accessible.

Managing director of HSV, Phil Harding, explained the evolved LPG technology in a recent press release,

“LPI was developed to deliver two tangible benefits to the motorist. Reduced running costs as well as reduced emissions; however, from the very beginning we committed that we would not compromise on engine performance.”

Harding says that although the technology has been around for a while in LPG form, HSV has been adamant in retaining the high performance aspect of its engines, “motorists had already bought into the idea of LPG as an alternative fuel, but they had always had to compromise in respect of engine performance. LPI overcomes this problem”, Harding says.

HSV claims CO2 emissions from the HSV Grange exhaust are reduced by as much as 15 percent when running with the LPI system. But it’s not only eco-friendly, it’s also cheap to run. The car is filled up like any other LPG car. So although you may have to queue up with taxis, a full tank will cost you less than half as much as a full tank of petrol.

The car does require normal petrol for start up until the engine is warm though, so you still need to fill the car with petrol and it is still attributed to the running costs. Although, you won’t be using as much.

The engine will then change from petrol to LP seamlessly. There’s no switching to be made by the driver. HSV says people who drive the LPI engine say it’s no impossible to tell the system is working and normal HSV response and power is felt from the engine.

Once the car is up to running temperature, the engine computer will continue to use the liquid propane until extra demands are asked. So if you’re on a track and constantly on the accelerator pedal (or roughly when the engine is pushed beyond 5300rpm), the engine computer will switch back over to conventional petrol mode.

The engine does this through the use of two injectors in each cylinder; one petrol injector and one LP injector. The engine then switches from LP to petrol in an instant.

So even though the car is not completely LP-dependent, in most circumstances the HSV Grange LPI is a very cheap and clean luxury performance car to run. Whenever the need for acceleration is in demand, the engine can provide and change instantly into a high-performance car.

HSV offers the LPI package at $5990. And don’t forget, the government will give you back $2000 of that. The initial cost of the package could pay itself off within a year quite easily.

[nugget378]

Very cool stuff, I like it..

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Danny

Yeah mate, that was probably up to 1997. and we are now in 2010...
Look I reckon HSV's are one of the most Horrid gauche and goudy looking shitemobiles disgracing Aussie Designers, but you HAVE to hand it to them, when it comes to positioning themself as a more luxury and tech advanced car. This EDI system, MRC, Lane departure, blind spot warnings, Xenons and Projector headlamps and LED's are things Ford do NOT have, and I belive that they will not have on the Falcon soon.

Ive said it a million times. I jump into the XR6T ute and the F6 Ute back to back, the differences are the seats, the engine the brakes and suspension. That is IT. It makes you think why oh WHY won't someone at Ford GET THEIR ACT TOGHETHER and TRY, JUST TRY, to adopt something that TRULY makes us go, "oh, wow!" (and NO, the coyote is not enough, I'm talking strictly of these "gimmicks" that bring HSV's closer to a european standard than Falcon will ever be)

Def. my 2c worth.

Up untill 3 days ago the only real difference between a Maloo and SSV were engine, seats, brakes and suspension. As stated earlier in the thread HSV are happy to carry on with buggered gearbox's and current crop of engines. They've invested in LPG, electronics and plastics. This is probably in line with their plan to target the Euro competition. Funnily enough this philosophy has only been around since they took the Monaro overseas to watch it flop. When FPV falls under the global performance arm (SVT+RS+FPV) I think we'll see the same equipment levels going into the products to reflect their global desires. Untill then individual consumers will make up their own minds on the value of FPV's forced induction motors over HSV's track day specials.

And given you have 2 Barra's I assume you liked the Ford choice?

[Windsor220]

Yep not bad I reckon. Something different. Its only with VE that HSV has started adding these things to their cars. FPV will do it in time but they dont have the budget atm. They did just spend 40 milliion on this new V8.

[Chilliman]

Hopefully this will spur on Ford/FPV to include the MYFORD Touch/Sync system in the Falcon.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by vztrt

http://www.caradvice.com.au/82580/hs...edi-in-detail/

As I DO track my car, I'd find this useful, currently I make do with a combo of RaceChrono (GPS and OBD2 logging) on my phone, and a XT Racing lap timer.

Having it all integrated into the dash would be brilliant.

[iliov]

Why is there a GTS and not a grange in this image???

[data_mine]

If you check the other pictures one states it's a GTS #0481



So the writer of the article is pretty thick if they think the feature is not coming to other HSVs like stated.

HSV is yet to release official confirmation on when the Enhanced Driver Interface (EDI) system will be available in the rest of the HSV range.

I think they have with those pics.

[JC]

Looks good, but government LPG rebate is no longer $2000 - it's down to $1750 or $1500 at the moment.

[Iggypoppin']

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Yep not bad I reckon. Something different. Its only with VE that HSV has started adding these things to their cars. FPV will do it in time but they dont have the budget atm. They did just spend 40 milliion on this new V8.

this.
HSV have been around, jeez, how many years? More years than FPV. So more time to accumulate funds/work with Holden to produce products.
Ford(FPV) will follow with this sort of thing. People just need to give them time.
I think coyote might be the boost they need to up sales, gain profit and start to really expand the gadgetry and technology in these and future FPV models.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by prydey

i wonder if all these comments would be the same if it was ford who released this product? i think not.

when being as unbiased as i can i still have reservations about some of the new stuff....no doubt most of it will be cool. One way to find out....im heading over to ls1 to find out....lol

[1TUFFUTE]

hey boys..."i hear fpv is getting all new mustang engines from the states with superchargers that make our allready maxed ancient motors look like there standing still." QUICK LETS RELEASE ANOTHER MODEL DESTROYING EDITION...OH WAIT AND WHATS THE CHEAPEST THING WE CAN INSTALL TO TRY AN TAKE THE FOCUS OFFFFF THE NEW FORDS.


I think everyone forgets how much these things cost...nearly 20g more then the new 70 000 gt. Itd wanna be(grange) impressive and not look like a pile of plastic from left over transformers.GTS Pretty cool gear tho i spose

[FG XR]

Gee hsv sure do know how to make their cars look even uglier!! Goddam!! Seriously why put this feature into a limo? Should just be gts, r8 etc

[Stoney!]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

hey boys..."i hear fpv is getting all new mustang engines from the states with superchargers that make our allready maxed ancient motors look like there standing still." QUICK LETS RELEASE ANOTHER MODEL DESTROYING EDITION...OH WAIT AND WHATS THE CHEAPEST THING WE CAN INSTALL TO TRY AN TAKE THE FOCUS OFFFFF THE NEW FORDS.

Are you comparing the brand spanking new high tech small capacity charched coyote engine against the ancient push rod 6.2 V8 that only manages an extra 20 kw and 10nm, and still sadly only save 0.2L/100km of fuel with a better gearbox......

P.S. The GM gearbox's will get better as they correct tune issues and shift patterns, as these 6 speeders from the V6 commodores work an absolute treat in the 1 and 3 series BMW's.

Very impressed with this, Ford can't seriously think a better drive train alone will attract buyers, and this goes for the whole range. When your average buyer compares prices and see's the like of MRC, xenon lights and euro style warning systems. Not to mention things like standard DVD players and auto wipers etc even in calais, it ticks more boxes for them.

It seems a lot of people have blindly dismissed this before realising all the features it has. it even uss its inbuilt gps on top of the sensors in the car just like expensive portable units do. It does have an erase button and can be uploaded to usb to be viewed later on a computer. VW have the same head units in their cars, If only they offered this for my car.

The rest of the range will get it and im think hsv didn't want a tiny percentage of top of the range owners feeling ripped off for not gettin it. These types of technology impress me as with the holden IQ. Australian cars need more of it as we are lagging badly.

Stoney!

Stoney!

[Venomous1]

All these things are good and will lead Ford/Fpv to improve even more. Competition is always welcome the consumer wins I like it.

[Wretched]

technology and features like this would sway me to HSV over FPV.
For the $$ spent, the E1,2 and now 3 series HSVs are very good value.
Good power, good chassis and a dabble in technology (about time the locals put some gadgets into their cars).

Gimmick? Only for the simpletons who wouldn't understand how to use it.
Then again if it were FPV with it, there would be high praises.