Aug Vfact - Aug 2014 - Merc C Class Outsells falcon

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

C Classes would be predominately be dealer and Mercedes Benz Australia regos as the new model was launched last month.

Mercedes has been holding stock back to ensure they could launch them all at once, which meant they had a ship load of stock sitting on the docks here and most were registered in August.

and? Your reckon there arent any rentals or ford motor company car numbers in that falcon result? I like the glass half full point of view you have.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

and? Your reckon there arent any rentals or ford motor company car numbers in that falcon result? I like the glass half full point of view you have.

I'm not standing up for Falcon. Was just commenting on mercs month with c class.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Depends on what your needs are! You will be getting a base model 4 banger in a merc for G6ET price.

Out in mums and dad land and I should include the ageing population as well, most buyers would go for a 4 banger often also turboed over a turbo 6, enthusiasts make up such a small proportion of the marketplace.

And a base model Merc would probably match or possibly beat a G6ET for kit and technology so I can see why buyers strive for the additional badge appeal when faced with similar pricing.

Add that most families these days have multiple vehicles or at least a minimum of two for various duties and you start to realise it not predominately the Ford brand that isn’t wanted, it’s the fact larger 4 door sedans aren’t as necessary these days.

[Ford17]

When I was a kid, a Mercedes - any Mercedes - was a luxury car which few could afford.
They were usually owned by doctors, and were the top prize on 'Sale of the Century'.
Commodores and Falcons were aplenty.

Nowadays, every man and his dog seems to have one; or a Bimmer, or an Audi.
And now these vfacts figures seem to confirm this.

What a turnaround the local car scene has made in the last 30 years or so.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by NX74205

You're assuming that a Euro car out of warranty will have problems that will cost an arm and a leg to fix. That is not necessarily correct. It is impossible to predict the reliability of cars that have not been on the market for long. Basing this on past performance is not assumes that the manufacturer don't learn their lessons and won't improve from generation to generation. That is simply absurd.



Two years for pre-owned. Does Ford offer any warranty above and beyond the new car warranty for pre-owned cars?

In any event, people who buy these cars expect to pay more. If they're rich enough to afford a Mercedes, they're rich enough to afford to keep it maintained with genuine parts from a Mercedes dealer. Arguing that people are being "raped" by Mercedes is a somewhat cynical view - for many who buy premium Euro brands, money is not a factor.



Nothing lasts forever. Cars wear out over time and use. Having problems develop after about 5 years isn't exclusive to European cars.

Well, Bluey GT and I had already squared away the conversation via PM as to not sidetrack the thread.
I'm not saying those who buy new or 2/3 year old pre owned Euro can't afford them... If they want the privilege of owning an 'exclusive' Euro (German Corolla/Camry) with the added cost of a warranty or mechanical insurance for piece of mind then good on them... Fact is if you buy Aussie or Jap of the same year then a warranty or insurance isn't a must have.

But what about those who can afford a mostly depreciated 5-10 y/o Euro (Lets say a Disco3 or E500 w/ air suspension, or diesel DSG VW) loaded with all the tech. SOME buyers can afford to buy it out right, they might be stretching it to service them, let alone repair (Geez, I recently bought all the engine filters for my 320d which came to $450, plus oil, not including diff or g.box, and did the work myself. At a garage I'd get no change out of $1200).

I've seen plenty of examples of tech loaded Euros owned by posers who can afford to buy them (or finance them over 5 years) but neglect them come service or repair, because it'll break the bank. Any desirability to own those cars (7 series, E/S Cass, any large Euro SUV etc) equals 0.

Yeah, all things mechanical have a time limit. Having problems after five years isn't exclusive to Euros, but in general when the shtf you'll be forking out more coin to fix them than a Jap or Aussie car. The cheapest part of owning some of them is the purchase price.

[LoudPipes]

Apart from many cheaper service options for Euros outside of the dealerships, jump on line and check out the worldwide network of cheap genuine and aftermarket parts for them.

The distributors deliver worldwide and to your door. All the enthusiasts on the Euro forums know about them and how to save much like enthusiasts for Ford and Holden know of the alternatives to their respective dealers.

As a side point my Merc in NSW is cheaper register and insure than my nephews SS Commodore Ute. That saving alone makes up for the difference in service charges I pay over his Holden service costs and I get a lunch thrown in while I wait.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Forda

When I was a kid, a Mercedes - any Mercedes - was a luxury car which few could afford.
They were usually owned by doctors, and were the top prize on 'Sale of the Century'.
Commodores and Falcons were aplenty.

Nowadays, every man and his dog seems to have one; or a Bimmer, or an Audi.
And now these vfacts figures seem to confirm this.

What a turnaround the local car scene has made in the last 30 years or so.

With the big three luxury brands (Merc, BMW and Audi) pushing volume over exclusivity, I cant see the appeal in owning them as a status symbol like days gone by. They seem to moving further and further down into smaller and cheaper models.

You are more likely to see a Merc badge on a small hatch back that's 10 to 20 grand more than a equivalent VW or Ford. Or even worse a Van or truck. How is that exclusive?

If I was shopping for Luxury, Jaguar, Lexus, Infinity and even Volvo do a better job at exclusivity than the usuals. You wont pull up next to another Jaguar for instance driven by some 18yo female or yummy mummy on the school run

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Chopped

70% of the market segment is pretty good IMO

Falcon sales will have to increase around 500% just to match those "very ****** sales numbers.

It's not about market or segment share. It's about the billion they spent on a model that's only going to be around a few years and selling jack squat what it needs to pay itself off......

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

It's not about market or segment share. It's about the billion they spent on a model that's only going to be around a few years and selling jack squat what it needs to pay itself off......

Lol, you should get a job working in GM's accountancy dept, your about the only person who cares.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by smoo

Geez, I recently bought all the engine filters for my 320d which came to $450,

You're looking in the wrong places

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

With the big three luxury brands (Merc, BMW and Audi) pushing volume over exclusivity, I cant see the appeal in owning them as a status symbol like days gone by. They seem to moving further and further down into smaller and cheaper models.

I see your point, and to an extent, I agree.

I still see Mercedes-Benz as a status symbol, but only as far as the C, E and S classes are concerned. I would buy one of these in a heartbeat if I could afford to over any of the Japanese pretenders (and only if I can get the traditional grille with the three pointed star "gunsight" on the bonnet). But I'm not particularly fond of anything else with the three pointed star badge.

The S class, and in particular, the S600, still have a degree of exclusivity that some people aspire to (myself included). The fact that it has the same badge as an A160 is irrelevant. The car speaks for itself. And I'm willing to bet that the "lesser" S-classes will be far more common, while the S600 remains comparatively rare and exclusive.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by smoo

If they want the privilege of owning an 'exclusive' Euro (German Corolla/Camry) with the added cost of a warranty or mechanical insurance for piece of mind then good on them... Fact is if you buy Aussie or Jap of the same year then a warranty or insurance isn't a must have.

German Corolla ... pfft

The premium Euro brands have it all over everybody else as far as build quality is concerned. Nothing else compares. If you're happy with plasticky cheap interiors, by all means, get a Falcon or a Camry.

The new W205 series C-class and the W222 series S-class have taken a quantum leap forward in interior design, technology and quality over even its already decent predecessors. There's no way that a Corolla or a Camry is even on the same planet.

Originally Posted by smoo

But what about those who can afford a mostly depreciated 5-10 y/o Euro (Lets say a Disco3 or E500 w/ air suspension, or diesel DSG VW) loaded with all the tech. SOME buyers can afford to buy it out right, they might be stretching it to service them, let alone repair (Geez, I recently bought all the engine filters for my 320d which came to $450, plus oil, not including diff or g.box, and did the work myself. At a garage I'd get no change out of $1200).

I've seen plenty of examples of tech loaded Euros owned by posers who can afford to buy them (or finance them over 5 years) but neglect them come service or repair, because it'll break the bank. Any desirability to own those cars (7 series, E/S Cass, any large Euro SUV etc) equals 0.

If people are silly enough not to factor in service and maintenance costs when making any car purchase, then that's their problem. If people neglect the car they own by not maintaining it to a correct standard, things will break, repairs will become more costly as small problems get compounded into bigger ones, and the car will be worth zilch to any potential buyer because it has not been maintained properly. That is true of any car.

Originally Posted by smoo

The cheapest part of owning some of them is the purchase price.

Depending on how long people intend to keep the car and how much they drive, that statement is generally true for every car. I've spent way more keeping my EA on the road than it cost me to buy it. In the 8 years since I bought my BF I've probably also spent more than its purchase price keeping it on the road, when factoring into insurance, rego, fuel as well as service and maintenance.

The cheapest part of owning *most* cars is the purchase price.

[mik]

Do they also out sell the toyota aurion and mondeo? ?

[vztrt]

So has anyone got figures of the sales for Holden and Ford??

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

It's not about market or segment share. It's about the billion they spent on a model that's only going to be around a few years and selling jack squat what it needs to pay itself off......

Just remember YOU are a buyer, you are not GM. So why do you care ?
(I highly doubt you have GM shares)

You bought your G6ET because it is a great mix of niceties and power not because Ford spent less than GM developing it.

If GM spent too much making the VF then it is a win for the buyer, not sure why you don't see that. Their loss, your gain.
I think most people in here wished the FGX would have had a new interior just like the VF got to complete the package.

The VF is doing very well compared to the rest of the large car segment.

[Mighty Reds]

The SS sales (150 last month) in the US are horrible I wonder how long it will last for.
It is outsold by the Corvette 20-1.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

It's not about market or segment share. It's about the billion they spent on a model that's only going to be around a few years and selling jack squat what it needs to pay itself off......

By the time they all close it will have been on sale for around 2 more years than FGX & Ford is still spending a lot of money for a model only selling 500 units & only selling for 18 months. As a percentage of money spent vs. units sold over number of years on sale, I'd say Holden & Ford have spent the same amount of money & will make the same amount of losses. They are both pretty bad business models if you ask me!!

[smoo]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

You're looking in the wrong places

Yeah. Oil, air, fuel and crankcase breather filters... I could have sourced for half the price including postage out of the UK, but I wanted them that day, instead of 2-3 weeks time.

Originally Posted by NX74205

German Corolla ... pfft

The premium Euro brands have it all over everybody else as far as build quality is concerned. Nothing else compares. If you're happy with plasticky cheap interiors, by all means, get a Falcon or a Camry.

The new W205 series C-class and the W222 series S-class have taken a quantum leap forward in interior design, technology and quality over even its already decent predecessors. There's no way that a Corolla or a Camry is even on the same planet.

I agree, but you're missing the point. Here, mothers or granddad will get around in a Corolla, Camry, Commodore, or some nasty Asian *** box. Anything with a Mercedes or BMW badge is perceived as prestige or exclusive. Which is kind of weird, considering this is a decades old image, and it is not until the last ten years that the German cars have actually featured standard tech far above anything else in their segment. Buy a base model C/E Class or 3/5 series 10 to 20 years ago and they came with nothing (but still seen as luxury)... My old 1995 540i BMW had less spec than a VN Calais ffs.
Contrast with Europe where those German models are just another car, to get from A-B. You could also say a Peugeot 308 is a French Corolla (with about 1/10th the reliability).
If anything it shows how we get the raw end of the stick, and how far ahead the Germans are.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Bent8

I guess the move from large to small cars is really picking up across all segments now.. but let's see if the trend continues when the FG X is released.

If you ask me, the new 2015 C-class doesn't look that great next to the new Falcon.

image

image

No. It's because the new C Class looks like an AU Falcon that its popular.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by zilo

Great resale...it's a Merc....

Those days are well and truly over. A byproduct of being popular.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Mighty Reds

The SS sales (150 last month) in the US are horrible I wonder how long it will last for.
It is outsold by the Corvette 20-1.

GM aren't trying to sell it in volume. Besides an appearance in Nascar, they haven't marketed it and have limited how many they import. It's meant to be a small volume niche car for the brand. Personally (in that market) I wouldn't spend almost $50k on a Chevrolet SS when you can get into a German performance sedan for similar money.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Oh great, just what we need, ANOTHER stick the boot into the Falcon thread.
I wish all the Falcon Haters who just Fekk off, this is a FORD forum after all.
If you want to go and enthuse over Mercedes (and various other cars you know nothing about) suggest you find somewhere else.

That these people come to an Australian Ford forum for the express purpose of bagging Australia's all-time best selling car, speaks volumes for their credibility.
So when you say "Oh I test drove the Mercedes and the Ford and the Merc was so much better," I just picture some middle-aged troglodyte loser sitting at their computer in their mother's back room, with their hand on it.

I wonder how many critics are cashed up enough for purchase a new Falcon, let alone a C Class Merc.

Not many I suspect.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

GM aren't trying to sell it in volume. Besides an appearance in Nascar, they haven't marketed it and have limited how many they import. It's meant to be a small volume niche car for the brand. Personally (in that market) I wouldn't spend almost $50k on a Chevrolet SS when you can get into a German performance sedan for similar money.

They projected 3000 sales a year. Selling 150 in a month doesn't even come near the required number to even reach half that.

[2011G6E]

So...will the government drop the protectionist import tariffs and taxes when there's no locally made cars like Falcon and Commodore? After all, if there's no local manufacturing to "protect" then why keep the tariffs?

I would bet a huge number of people would love to...but will not openly admit...that given the chance they'd rather have a three pointed star in the driveway over a blue oval or a lion...

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

So...will the government drop the protectionist import tariffs and taxes when there's no locally made cars like Falcon and Commodore? After all, if there's no local manufacturing to "protect" then why keep the tariffs?

I would bet a huge number of people would love to...but will not openly admit...that given the chance they'd rather have a three pointed star in the driveway over a blue oval or a lion...

You realise import tariffs are only 5% dont you? Or even less for cars made in the US (where alot of Mercs and BMWs are made)

[mik]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Just remember YOU are a buyer, you are not GM. So why do you care ?
(I highly doubt you have GM shares)

You bought your G6ET because it is a great mix of niceties and power not because Ford spent less than GM developing it.

If GM spent too much making the VF then it is a win for the buyer, not sure why you don't see that. Their loss, your gain.
I think most people in here wished the FGX would have had a new interior just like the VF got to complete the package.

The VF is doing very well compared to the rest of the large car segment.

yeah but surely the emphasis should be whether they are making a profit on each car, not how many cars they sell............... selling hundreds of thousands of cars at a loss is not doing so well ???

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They projected 3000 sales a year. Selling 150 in a month doesn't even come near the required number to even reach half that.

They reached "half that" back in June. They've already moved 2055 units so far this year, so with 2/3 of the year gone, they're sitting perfectly at 2/3 of their projection, just how GM wants it. August was just an odd month, might be GM limiting stock, might be due to the MY15 lauching soon with MRC and manual gearbox. Other months have sold as high as 350 units.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by mik

yeah but surely the emphasis should be whether they are making a profit on each car, not how many cars they sell............... selling hundreds of thousands of cars at a loss is not doing so well ???

And all of that doesn't matter when you are the buyer.



^ surely not ??

[Polyal]

HAHAHA...yeah its funny how some can defend for not having the cash to do X and Y, yet seem to think the end consumer will care? They dont...evidently they just shop elsewhere and you are left with your core buyers and even then most of them are not entirely blind.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Chopped

And all of that doesn't matter who u are the buyer.

image

^ surely not ??

No its not about that that, i believe you said they (holden) are doing well because they sell more commodores, my point being if they where doing so well they would not be shutting up shop.