One-armed woman "driven" to despair. - Page 4

**GasoLane** · 30-05-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

People just switch your brains on, it's not that hard, the driver must be in control of the vehicle in all times, I doubt that any person who has to totally let go of his/her steering wheel to change gears would be considered to have control of his/her vehicle.

It is not that difficult, it is so basic that no legislation is required to say you need to be able to hold a steering wheel at all times to drive a car.

There is no possible way that she can change gears and maintain 100% control over her vehicle, as she will NOT BE HOLDING THE STEERING WHEEL!!!!! Does that sound like a good idea to anyone here??? To be driving a car and in order to change gears you have to let go of the only thing that points the one tonne missile into the right direction , the thought of this is just insane if you ask me.

About the 30sec mark..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol7St...eature=related....

XB GS 351 Coupe · 30-05-2011, 10:44 PM

Interesting clip, but does not change the fact that a person not holding the steering wheel does not have control of his/her vehicle...

rappie · 30-05-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Wow.. 3' tall with no arms. How does she turn the key in the ignition, indicate, beep the horn, change radio station, pull the sunvisor down, adjust mirrors, open the door.. all the things us people with 2 (or even 1) hands take for granted.

Its not what you asked but will help you understand a little

I know this woman.

She is a thalidomide case and she was born without arms and malformed legs
It didn't stop her from doing anything.
She drives her own specially adapted car & gives motivational talks to different groups

I found this for more insight

“I JUST feel so extraordinarily lucky. One of God's blessed people,” says Brett

Nielsen, sitting in his 4ha garden with the sun beaming through the trees. Good

looking, with a lovely partner and beautiful children, he strikes one as very lucky
indeed. As he speaks he is smoking, drinking coffee, continually playing with his
long hair, and patting his dog Tara. But there is one discrepancy. He is doing it all
with his feet.
Born Australia's first thalidomide child, he has no arms. Everything he does is
done with his toes, feet and legs. And what he does would push any human being
to the edge.
By day he drives an earth-moving machine with his feet. It is one of his many
businesses. By night he cooks, writes and helps bathe and play with his partner's
boy of seven and, on weekends, his own daughter of five.
But it is his musical skills that are so extraordinary. He is a successful composer,
recording artist and film-maker. His recording company, Big Toe Productions, is
one of the most respected in the country.
With his feet he plays piano and does all the technical production. He has sold
120,000 of his own CDs and recorded music for other well-known artists.
And now he's developed a new string to his bow: public speaking, touring around
the country for such companies as Westpac, Amway, Western Mining, and
motivating up to 1000 staff at a time.
“It's amazing to me that people get motivated and inspired just watching me
drinking a cup of tea,” he says, bringing the mug to his mouth in a yogic pose.
But more amazing is watching him shop, which is where I first caught sight of
Nielsen about a year ago. He was in the supermarket hopping on one leg, taking
things off the shelf with the other. I watched him load up his car, get in, and with
his feet on the wheel, drive off in his 20-year-old Ford truck, cigarette in mouth.
Then last week he turned up at our school barn dance, getting into the music and
making his little girl proud.
“I reckon human beings can do anything at all, anything they want to do,” he
says, smiling mysteriously. “There are no limits,” he says. His next challenge is
riding a motorcycle but, with all the trouble he went through to get his driving
licence, he knows it isn't going to be easy.
“I go through a lot of hassles that other people don't. Trying to fly is a nightmare.
One airline wanted me to sign a disclaimer that I didn't have any arms when I got
on the plane, in case I lost them along the way, and claimed that it was their
fault they were gone when I landed.
“Another airline wanted me to fly with someone else, so they could undo the
seatbelt in case we had a crash!”
He laughs heartily as he speaks. “I feel like I'm in some Monty Python skit. My life

is so bizarre.”

**GasoLane** · 30-05-2011, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Interesting clip, but does not change the fact that a person not holding the steering wheel does not have control of his/her vehicle...

Possibly, but that's the way all twin stick Macks had to be driven!

XB GS 351 Coupe · 30-05-2011, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Possibly, but that's the way all twin stick Macks had to be driven!

That is just insane that someone could design a vehicle like that, but still interesting to say the least

ToCo · 30-05-2011, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

That is a driving school pamphlet.

It also talks where to put your hands on the wheel and all the other driving school drivel.....

It is a list of things to do to pass a driving test nothing more......

You're correct, a pamphlet explaining road rules to pass your test. This lady following THESE rules would not pass. Simple...

fmc351 · 30-05-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP owner

What you say is true, but to single out someone based ona physical difference starts to raise a whole pile of questions. Do we need to be retesting ALL drivers every ten years to weed out those who got a licence under easier circumstances? Would that actually make any difference to road stats? Do we single out people who have low IQ because they would not react properly to a dangerous situation? Should we have evasive manouvres as a part of the testing criteria? See what I mean?

She isnt singled out, all amputees are subject to the same rules. It applies to a complete group of people. Are amputees singled out? Well maybe, but so are blind people by that logic. Cant imagine anyone except Flappist arguing they have a right to drive too.

10 yrs? I wouldnt argue against it.

We already 'discriminate' against people with mental retardation.

Evasive testing, like advanced driver training? Yep. And Ive read countless posts on this forum stating exactly that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Must admit I am having a hard time finding an actual law.

They all say 'proper control of a vehicle' or to that effect but does not define that as having at least one hand on the wheel from what I can see although a person with common sense can logically deduce that a steering wheel is used to steer with your hands. So I can see what Flap is getting at there.

Having said that law is ridiculously hard to read for average joe and why lawyers get paid so much.

Legislation is just the start of a law. The rest is how a court interprets that legislation, or limits it, and even expands it beyond the dictionary definition of the particular word in question. Always has been so, always will be so.

Thus you wont necessarily find legislation that EXPLICITLY states what is in question, The words 'proper control' would need to be (Id say have already been) interpreted for meaning by a court. Holding the wheel still, and the limited movement possible with steering with the knees wouldnt qualify IMO as 'proper control'. Proper control would more than likely mean full range of movement in both directions, ie: lock to lock operation thus most amputees would be required to have the ball on the wheel like a forklift.

What you would be looking for in this situation is probably found in caselaw not legislation.

EB# · 31-05-2011, 07:07 AM

I've seen the bloke with no arms, around town and out on the road
in a Falcon wagon.... He is fair dinkum and amazing.

I say let the one armed woman have her manual license. Given the
aptitude and dexterity that people like this have, I'd put money
on her being a better driver than most regular drivers, manual or auto,
emergency situation or otherwise.

ray38l · 31-05-2011, 10:47 AM

I know a 70 year old guy who drives his car to the pub almost every night and has 10 beers and drives home. He's been doing it for the 10 years I've known him and hasn't had a crash yet. He actually drives better then most sober. So should he be given an exemption from the law and be allowed to drive drunk?
One thing i cant stand is discrimination against people with disabilities, my niece had a disability and saw how hard life is for them. However forcing this woman to drive an auto is just common sense. Im sure she has had to adjust other things in her life to live with 1 arm and i bet changing cars would be one of the easiest to do to eliminate a problem.

93EB_SXR6 · 31-05-2011, 11:12 AM

...she has one arm and yet has been driving a manual.
That is ridiculous, I don't care what the bleeding hearts say.

There is such a thing as an automatic transmission; perhaps she hasn't heard of it.
Honestly, if you can't keep at least one hand on the wheel at all times you shouldn't be driving.

If I have to do something with both hands, I pull over so you can't use the excuse that I "open drinks with both hands under the wheel" or whatever.

burnz · 31-05-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

I see quite a few trying to change gears or fumble for steering wheel (or both at the same time) while holding something in one hand... very noticeable when your at an intersection.
If you time it right and blast the horn you get to see them toss their burger up in the air....

baahhwahh

still i think the main problem is the $500.00 test, why so much??

mik · 31-05-2011, 01:05 PM

some disabled people are exceptional at adapting to tasks that most able bodied people could never hope to do, i certainly would`nt judge them by my own abilities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yCpfMibhdE

fmc351 · 31-05-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

some disabled people are exceptional at adapting to tasks that most able bodied people could never hope to do, i certainly would`nt judge them by my own abilities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yCpfMibhdE

I knew a lady (friend of my grandparents) who had polio which effected both arms and legs. She could draw with a pen in her mouth, better than I could with a pencil and rubber in my hands. She also typed by having her arms in slings hanging from a frame and moved her body to get her hands hovering over the key as her fingers worked, but her arms wouldnt move on their own, and she stabbed at the keys, sort of like fly fishing is the only way I can describe it. She also had several sticks made up with various tips to do various tasks which she grabbed with her mouth from a jar. Amazing lady. Through that lady I met several other people with disabilities who were equally amazing.

But she required modifications to do these things. No-one is disputing this lady's ability to drive, just her ability to properly control a Manual gearbox, instead of an auto. It is completely unnecessary, and there is no way an unmodified car can be driven safely with no hands on the wheel, instead at best only one knee. It might be different if she was driving using her feet and a device to make that possible. As has been said, for many situations a knee would be fine and I have done it while doing other things along for the most part straight roads (Im sure most here have), but there are times where that would not be proper control, while an auto would completely eliminate that problem. To me it seems like a no brainer.

Thornie · 31-05-2011, 02:23 PM

My old next door neighbour has one arm and drove a manual 4x4 hilux ute, he was an arrogant sob and if someone told him he couldn't drive his car he would of told em to get ******.

Scott · 31-05-2011, 02:43 PM

4 pages on this.... I thought everyone would have agreed that if she can prove herself capable then that would be the end of it.

I don't blame her for getting the ***** about paying $550 to take some pube for a ride. She has a car that is assumedly road worthy, she can obviously drive it quite capably and if she can't afford to waste $550 on a test then she probably can't waste money changing over a car for no good reason.

Uncle Niceguy · 31-05-2011, 03:42 PM

i my self am colour blind to the point of every single colour having a heavy shade of green over it i had to sit a special test in qld due to this and now have specially made prescribed glasses to see normally i now have to wear them everytime i drive as i cannot see traffic lights properly (they are all green to me) because of this i cannot work in the defence force and im not aloud to do electrical work on anything although i do with my car yeah i had to fork out an arm and a leg for the glasses but i'd rather pay the bill and drive my pride and joy

any way back to the lady all european made cars including the holden astra have blinker and headlight control on the left hand side so i dont see the issue if she is capable then why not let her drive manual?

2011G6E · 31-05-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray38l

I know a 70 year old guy who drives his car to the pub almost every night and has 10 beers and drives home. He's been doing it for the 10 years I've known him and hasn't had a crash yet. He actually drives better then most sober. So should he be given an exemption from the law and be allowed to drive drunk?
One thing i cant stand is discrimination against people with disabilities, my niece had a disability and saw how hard life is for them. However forcing this woman to drive an auto is just common sense. Im sure she has had to adjust other things in her life to live with 1 arm and i bet changing cars would be one of the easiest to do to eliminate a problem.

Good example there. Like the woman in the story, it's just pure blind luck he hasn't had an accident yet, and you can't just use that "lucky streak" as an excuse to let them out of thier responsability as drivers on the public road with other innocent people around. What if she had an accident? One wonders what the insurance companies involved would say when she said "Nah I'm OK...I can steer perfectly well with my knees while trying to indicate and sound the horn and change down a gear to avoid the crash..."

I also am puzzled as to why the stupid woman wouldn't want to embrace something, ie: an automatic, that would make her life easier? I thought people with disabilities...at least the few I know do...look for devices and techniques that will make thier already-difficult lives easier. Why do it the hard way just to prove some sort of point?

Geez Louise · 31-05-2011, 04:13 PM

Geez...so many vocal people on this thread....

Someone should give this woman a hand (no pun intended) to pay to sit the test. I am sure once it is blasted all over the news etc etc, some company will offer to help her out.

Best of luck to her. The govt departments/agencies are just doing their jobs and she is just wanting to keep what she feels is her independance the way she wants it.

At the end of the day, it will probably result in laws being changed, better discriptions on rulings etc and all for only about 10 million tax paying dollars.

Joy of joys!

galaxy xr8 · 31-05-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I am still waiting for someone to actually show some legislation stating that one hand MUST remain on the steering wheel at all times.

And while you are at it.....

How does this now auto only driver turn on the headlights or windscreen wipers or whatever?

That is a very valid question.

**TUF_302** · 31-05-2011, 04:44 PM

Just because you can doesn't mean you should, silly woman needs an auto!!

XB GS 351 Coupe · 31-05-2011, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUF_302

Just because you can doesn't mean you should, silly woman needs an auto!!

Best quote of the thread

2011G6E · 31-05-2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

Geez...so many vocal people on this thread....

Best of luck to her. The govt departments/agencies are just doing their jobs and she is just wanting to keep what she feels is her independance the way she wants it.

Her "independance" is still driving a car with a serious lack of the neccisaries to control a car...they were never designed to be driven by someone with one hand, but an automatic will make the task a safe one for her.

Pay for the test? Bugger that, I hope some dealer offers a clean swap for an automatic of the same type as she drives now...

PimpMyHubcap · 31-05-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUF_302

Just because you can doesn't mean you should, silly woman needs an auto!!

+10

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I am still waiting for someone to actually show some legislation stating that one hand MUST remain on the steering wheel at all times.

When I`m at the DOT tomorrow I might ask or ask where to ask. Cant believe we dont have a driving instructor or tester here to confirm this.

**GasoLane** · 31-05-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb-fairmont

any way back to the lady all european made cars including the holden astra have blinker and headlight control on the left hand side so i dont see the issue if she is capable then why not let her drive manual?

Erm...my -old- Euro car only has one control (Indicators, Dipswitch, wipers) on the steering wheel and that's on the RHS

Uncle Niceguy · 31-05-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Erm...my -old- Euro car only has one control (Indicators, Dipswitch, wipers) on the steering wheel and that's on the RHS

well most european cars are like that vw, bmw, mercedes, pergeout, renault just to name a few are like that unless your car is exceptionally old ie. pre 50s-60s

**GasoLane** · 31-05-2011, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb-fairmont

well most european cars are like that vw, bmw, mercedes, pergeout, renault just to name a few are like that unless your car is exceptionally old ie. pre 50s-60s

Yeah it is quite old...1988 Mercedes 230e

flappist · 31-05-2011, 06:04 PM

It is quite amusing to watch all those here who are so busy telling someone else what they can and should be doing with their car.

Road safety, think of the kids....

Now where have I head that before, oh that right.....speed cameras, p plate restrictions, hoon laws, modification restrictions......

Now just wait for the "carbon hoons" having their pre ADR27a, then euro 0-5 vehicles banned and restricted.....followed by all the overpowered V8s and T6s........all for road safety, think of the kids...

It is just common sense really......just because they cane be driven on the road does not mean they should be.....

You are no different from Harold Scruby......

PimpMyHubcap · 31-05-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

It is quite amusing to watch all those here who are so busy telling someone else what they can and should be doing with their car.

Road safety, think of the kids....

Now where have I head that before, oh that right.....speed cameras, p plate restrictions, hoon laws, modification restrictions......

Now just wait for the "carbon hoons" having their pre ADR27a, then euro 0-5 vehicles banned and restricted.....followed by all the overpowered V8s and T6s........all for road safety, think of the kids...

It is just common sense really......just because they cane be driven on the road does not mean they should be.....

You are no different from Harold Scruby......

Hahahahahaa.......your examples are taking a turn for the worst. Let it go. Commonsense is against every excuse you make.

You are no different to an unlicensed feral who brings their unregistered POS from the country to the city, wipes out a family and says "oh but I can drive in the country"...........see!!!....wasted words that counters your "hello Harold" comment.

'Road safety, think of the kids".......yep I think of my 16yld learning to drive (he will be going to an instructor as well as me teaching him) next to that lady and it prompted me to start this thread. Got any kids??? because it really seems you dont care about other road users.

2011G6E · 31-05-2011, 07:04 PM

But why wouldn't you, when faced with the loss of one arm, not automatically think "Well, I'd better get an auto and make things easy for myself"...?

I believe it's just a psych problem she has, a victim mentality and a "I have to do everything I can, even if it's dangerous, to prove to everyone that I'm not different to anyone else!", type thing that some people have, even if they are definately not the same as everyone else.

Some people just have no concept of facing thier own limitations and working within them.

flappist · 31-05-2011, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PimpMyHubcap

Hahahahahaa.......your examples are taking a turn for the worst. Let it go. Commonsense is against every excuse you make.

You are no different to an unlicensed feral who brings their unregistered POS from the country to the city, wipes out a family and says "oh but I can drive in the country"...........see!!!....wasted words that counters your "hello Harold" comment.

'Road safety, think of the kids".......yep I think of my 16yld learning to drive (he will be going to an instructor as well as me teaching him) next to that lady and it prompted me to start this thread. Got any kids??? because it really seems you dont care about other road users.

It is normal for do gooders to see everyone else's arguments as invalid. Only they are the true oracles of wisdom.

I am making no excuses, just pointing out how narrow minded crusaders always push their restrictions on others "for the good of all" and "it is just common sense".

As far as the kids comment, yes quite a few, one of whom I suspect is about YOUR age.......