Should motorbikes be allowed ride through stationary traffic?

[BF-2K7]

Originally Posted by flappist

So you read English as well as you write........is that supposed to be French? No ,,,,,it is supposed to be VERY bad French. maybe try and read, comprehend and understand English instead of correcting my very bad French

If so the correct grammar, well vernacular anyway, is "ne vous comprends pas". Thankyou for the free French lesson, much appreciated

As far as the other, it is legal not mandatory. Ummm I thought I said "if the gap isnt wide enough you wouldnt go through it! Commonsense really" ........... so I wouldn't do it if it was legal OR mandatory! therefore

This means that you do not have to do it of you do not want to. Very good - well done

The rest means that all drivers/riders are responsible for their actions and if a rider bumps a mirror then that is no different to driver of a vehicle with wide mirrors or whatever bumping something else. Im not sure if you're reading what Im writing, I would not go through a gap that was too narrow and bump mirrors THATS THE WHOLE POINT so I dont understand what your whole rant to me was all about

ta oh sorry - Thankyou.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

So you call people in large 4x4 'morons' yet you plead tolerance

Seems like the kettle calling the pot black to me

PS: it's not legal yet, apart from a few streets in Sydney CBD where it is being trailed, the rest of the state and it is still against the law.

No I call people with large 4WDs who put them in small parking spots where they hang over both sides morons, something that is quite common here.

If some might do this should not all of them banned?
After all they may scratch someone else'd vehicle.
Or is that just being a self centered nannyista too....

[LTDHO]

112/58 in favour.

I'm shocked!

[mcnews]

Nobody should be allowed to do anything. Everyone must stay home and watch ACA, Today Tonight, listen to Alan Jones then hang as much crap as possible on everyone that doesn't do everything exactly like them. That's how it works isn't it?
This nanny crap and people's accepting attitudes of nanny crap does my head in, even car enthusiasts on here are all for the nanny state it seems. The mind boggles.

[red_hotxr6]

No, i dont agree with it. I am under the belief that motor cyclist like motorists have to know and follow the same road rules, so if you arrive to stationary traffic, stay in line like all the other motorists do and wait for the traffic to move along. This will guarantee 100% that a motorist will never be hit or scraped/damaged by a motorcyclist.
I was south of brisbane near Ipswhich where they were doing road works, it was stop start all the way for klms, a cyclist was weaving his way through traffic, passed me and intending to do the same to the other motorists, when the police officer directing traffic, told him to stay behind traffic, and stop moving through the traffic the way he was.

[zilo]

It will increase collisions, cause the moron factor will kick in, especially with the young inexperienced riders.

Nothing quite like having your braking distance halved by a P plated twat who doesn't realize you are already in your hardest braking phase approaching the stopping line.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Ugg

It will increase collisions, cause the moron factor will kick in, especially with the young inexperienced riders.

Nothing quite like having your braking distance halved by a P plated twat who doesn't realize you are already in your hardest braking phase approaching the stopping line.

This is thread is about motorcycles passing through STATIONARY traffic.

If you are still moving in your car when in stationary traffic then it is not the motorcyclists who have the "moron factor" about which you speak and will cause collisions.

[ratter]

If a motorcyclist damages a car doing it, then simple, they are responsible to rectify the damage, if they try to ride off, then simple you get their rego and report it to the police, not different than leaving the scene of another crash!
As a motorist and a motorcyclist, I have never hit a car while moving forward and I have never seen a car hit by a bike from doing it, I know it does happen but so do rear enders, I know which I would prefer.

[1TUFFUTE]

any clown who doesn't agree with this law...id like to hear a REAL reason why they cant do this in stopped traffic. Not just the usual whinging about whos in front of the line. If its safe and it helps the traffic situation...then its bogas its not law allready

[You Yangs]

Does not worry me either way but what does is having motorbikes and cyclists first in line to be wiped out by ******** red light runners. If I was a motorcyclist i'd be checking for stopped traffic on both sides just like I do in the car or follow the first car/truck into intersection to reduce the risk

[graham7773]

I would like to see the statistical increase of deaths and injuries caused by this being made law in other states. Could be interesting.

[BF-2K7]

Taken from: http://bikeraware.com/rr_lane_splitting.htm

In broad terms, filtering by motorcyclists is defined as moving between traffic when other surrounding traffic is stationary. This is standard motorcycle practice and necessary for safe motorcycle travel.

Lane splitting is defined as moving through traffic when other traffic is in motion. It can also refer to overtaking within the same marked lane in moving traffic. This is currently an illegal activity in Victoria.

“Lane Filtering” is still legal in all states of Australia although there are some technicalities that some police may book a biker for doing this. This may depend on the discretion of the policeman at the time, taking into account the speed you are doing and the other vehicles around you, if you are sharing the same lane as another vehicle which is also moving or passing to the left of a vehicle. If the policeman thinks that you are riding dangerously or recklessly among moving traffic he will most likely book you.

If you see a biker looking like filtering/splitting, maintain your position in the centre of the lane, or give a little more room if possible. (The biker will appreciate this) While often motorists will purposely minimize the room, this can create unnecessary dangers to the biker.

While the motorcycle is about 70 cm wide at the bars, the mirrors make it wider & are at the same height as car mirrors. Experienced bikers may have no trouble in tight situations, while others wont try.

WHY do bikers do this? There are safety concerns for & against lane filtering.

1. Firstly, because they can!

2. Lane Filtering shortens the traffic lane cues & eases city traffic congestion.

3. Decreases the chances of rear end collisions & being concertinaed in stop-start traffic.

4. The motorcycle is best seen while out front of the traffic & can swiftly pull away from the rest of the traffic.

5. In heavy city traffic sitting behind car exhausts can cause nausea for the motorcyclist.

[XR6TCraig]

If only statistics told the story.

Heres a scenario of what I mean:

Young lady on her bike sitting 6 vehicles from the front is rear ended because the driver didn't see her ( SMIDSY) while waiting for the light to turn green and killed. If she had filtered to the front out of harms way this would not have happened. This is not an uncommon scenario, but death is not always the outcome.

How can statistics account for a death that wouldn't have happened if lane filtering was legal and the rider wasn't there?

Especially when those looking at statistics would only look at desaths due to lane filtering, not potential lives saved because of it.

[BF-2K7]

For those who want the stastistics.......

(taken from a UK website): http://www.bikelawyer.co.uk/bike-accident-statistics

Casualty age and crash types

A study (Clarke et al 2004) has indicated that there are 2 clear peaks in casualty age (21-25 & 31-35) and that there are 3 basic discernable motorcycle crash types:

- Right of way violation accidents (38% of cases)
- Loss of control at bends at speed (11% plus of cases)
- Overtaking/filtering accidents (15% of cases)

Clarke et al found that road users other than the injured motorcyclists are usually the cause of crashes and therefore road safety initiatives should be targeted at those other road users in addition to bikers.

* Interesting to note these statistics are for 'casualties' not fatalities and that filtering has been included in 'overtaking' which would more likely be done in moving traffic at speed.

From these numbers I can't conclude much and you could manipulate them to suit your own conclusion

...... ohhh the joys of the interweb on a rainy day!

[aZ`]

I'm all for it.

However I urge motorcyclists to think ahead when lane filtering, i understand it's safer to be at the front when the lights turn green but have also noticed it's less safe (than even staying in their lane) if you don't make it all the way to the front and have to quickly find a space in accelerating traffic.

[gtxb67]

the only way those statistics mean anything is if overtaking and filtering were separate entries

if a bike filters through to the front of the queue it is unlikely he will be involved in an overtaking accident with the cars he filtered through
if he is forced to wait behind the traffic, then there is a chance that he will be involved in an overtaking accident with the cars he now has to pass

overtaking and filtering accidents are totally different and should be considered thus - plus they don't take into account if a bike is waiting in traffic and is rear ended as far as filtering/non filtering statistics go

[BF-2K7]

true, but I can't find any pertaining soley to lane filtering, that was the closest I could get

[Rodp]

Don't recall a single instance where a motorbike who has cut lanes has held me up in 25 years of driving.

[greenfoam]

Cars sneak past you to turn left all the time even on unmarked roads, no ones stopping them so I can't see a problem with the bikes

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by BF-2K7

true, but I can't find any pertaining soley to lane filtering, that was the closest I could get

i am sure they are not around
there has been a few posts regarding statistics but to me, in this situation, they won't mean much at all

[pottery beige]

$10 says those against are mouthbreathers that love sitting in rh lane 10k under the limit..

life evolves around them..

[BF-2K7]

........ maybe they should try being in our boots for a change, waiting in peak hour traffic whilst its raining and coughing up all the noxious fumes from exhaust emmitions as we are forbidden to filter through traffic.Can see lots of pros for this being law, few cons

[zilo]

Originally Posted by flappist

This is thread is about motorcycles passing through STATIONARY traffic.

.

do you have a point in making that comment?

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by ratter

If a motorcyclist damages a car doing it, then simple, they are responsible to rectify the damage, if they try to ride off, then simple you get their rego and report it to the police, not different than leaving the scene of another crash!
As a motorist and a motorcyclist, I have never hit a car while moving forward and I have never seen a car hit by a bike from doing it, I know it does happen but so do rear enders, I know which I would prefer.

The fact of the matter is bike knock off mirrors all the time and they are gone before a rego can be taken.

Sure bike rider will say 'who cares, it's just a mirror'.
when you consider the mirror ha scratched the door and guard. It is not a cheap fix.

[ratter]

how fast could it get through the traffic? surley not fast enough not to get a rego taken, low lifes exist in all forms, many drive cars even, many ride bikes, there will always be somebody doing the wrong thing.

[BF-2K7]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

The fact of the matter is bike knock off mirrors all the time and they are gone before a rego can be taken.

Sure bike rider will say 'who cares, it's just a mirror'.
when you consider the mirror ha scratched the door and guard. It is not a cheap fix.

I would suggest that is a bit of an exaggeration "all the time"?? - more mirrors are 'swiped' off by other cars and/or trucks than by motorcycles, and yes it is a big deal for bike riders.

Bike mirrors are on the handle bars, a swift knock to them and it can unbalance the whole machine and send the bike towrds another car - so yes, those of us that filter, DO take care, in the interests of self preservantion, plus we dont want to smash our mirrors, they are just as expensive to replace.

[T4ME]

I find it funny that most assume it's OK to rock up in front of you on a slower bike and then expect you to get up to the speed limit as they wish.

Getting in front of them and then hitting the washer jets is always a laugh.

[my_gxl]

riders must stop at the intersection stop-line

I would love to see tin can occupants do this one day as well, not just drive past it, then stop.

I usually on see Lane splitting again when same tin can occupant just sits in the right lane everywhere.

Originally Posted by 66GT

Having a long time daily rider mate currently in hospital after losing his lower right leg due to being taken out by someone in a car failing to give way & turning into him at an intersection. Watching him accept that his riding days are most likely over & that his beloved Harley is no more reasures the reality that many car drivers aren't aware, & don't care what other motorists are doing. So who legally has to give way when old mate on his bike is half way along the 100m of stopped traffic when the light goes green at the front of the line? & which lane is the bike to enter into if on a multi lane road?

Loud pipes save lives.

The motorcyclist will know which spot to indicate then filter into.

I quite happily turn car mirrors forwards on cars who nearly hit me when i'm on the bike They failed to use it, so they obviously dont need the thing. They kinda get the point after that, and it causes no damage.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Ugg

do you have a point in making that comment?

What you mean other than pointing out that stationary vehicles have a ZERO braking distance because they are already stopped?

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by ratter

how fast could it get through the traffic? surley not fast enough not to get a rego taken, low lifes exist in all forms, many drive cars even, many ride bikes, there will always be somebody doing the wrong thing.

They're plate is bloked bu the other cars they past. Especiall if they pass on your left.

Originally Posted by BF-2K7

I would suggest that is a bit of an exaggeration "all the time"?? - more mirrors are 'swiped' off by other cars and/or trucks than by motorcycles, and yes it is a big deal for bike riders.

Bike mirrors are on the handle bars, a swift knock to them and it can unbalance the whole machine and send the bike towrds another car - so yes, those of us that filter, DO take care, in the interests of self preservantion, plus we dont want to smash our mirrors, they are just as expensive to replace.

It happens a lot more than you'd think.
The owner of the car has to suffer the consequences.